Steve Bruce

[Dave J]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

Thats fair comment Mark.....and you are right Wigan are a decent side and will take points off other teams.

my point is this.....Why do these perceived lower teams get players who manage to be so effective.Just as a few observations.....The lad Robinson (3) what a bundle of energy he is and to think we are looking for a left back.....Their goal keeper i thought had presence and quite competent.....2 centre backs not as technically gifted as Chester, but aggressive and robust.

No doubt we did well in terms of securing the result, but we do have too many players at times who get so easily relieved of the ball.....they must sort this out.

Thought McGinn was an exception, reminded me of Cropley.

 

 

 

 

Steady down. TRO - that's our Alex your talking about

[sparrow1988]

 

2 hours ago, romavillan said:

He's always done it, it's why Pep Guardiola has him down as one of the best coaches in the world, it's something that Guardiola has always tried to do as well. Klopp too. You'd think his training is geared to not breaking his squad into a mess by Christmas. Aside from the high press though, to a man, they look like they know *exactly* where to be with and without the ball, they look amazingly well drilled. After nearly two years loads of ours still look **** lost half the time.

I agree. If the condition of the squad is well managed then I see no reason why it can't last the season. As you say poitioning is key to the pressing game, it's not all about running around like lunatics. As an individual if you're 5 yards nearer to the ball before you start your press and you make, for example (not a clue what the actual figure is) 30 sprints per game in order to press your opponent then you've sprinted 150 yards less in that game. Over a season that adds up and even in the game reduces the chances of sustaining an injury

Communication is also key. I heard an interview with Ian Rush lately and he said he would always look to press the centre backs but sometimes would get a call from Daglish to say don't go and then he knew to hold back until the rest of the team were set then he would go and they would all follow. This pressing tactic is not a new phenomenon. Liverpool were doing it back in the 80's and I'm sure that teams before that were also doing it. Bielsa started managing teams in the 90's.

[macandally]

5 hours ago, weedman said:

There is a gameplan and strategy and a tactical approach, it's just defense oriented so you don't like it. We're organised, solid and counter attacking, and excellent at set pieces. The style is absolutely nowhere near as bad as people make out. Just because you don't like the gameplan doesn't mean there isn't one and doesn't mean it won't work.

 

For all the talk of attacking football being the only way, Cardiff got promoted playing the worst football in the division, for all the talk of Wolves they played really similarly to us, organised and counter attacking team, they just had a range of £15m+ players doing it instead of Glenn Whelan. The only team you can argue really played good attacking football was Fulham, even the rest of the top 6, Boro have Pulis and play 11 men behind the ball hope for 1-0 because, Pulis. Derby played very defense oriented football as well. Literally 5 of last seasons top 6 prioritised the defence

All the talk of Bruce ball, yesterday we had more possession, more shots, more on target, more blocked shots, more passes with a higher pass completion, more key passes, scored more goals and came from behind to maintain our 100% start to the season, with an unsettled squad which desperately needs a couple more players - players we're likely to get in the next few weeks. I mean, it's not ALL bad right? 

Were you there yesterday, you call that solid?

We looked porous every time they ran at us or strung five passes together.  We are treading water, we are not getting better and even if by some miracle we dragged ourselves up, this type of set up will see us relegated in a season.  We so need some form of plan it is painful (nearly as painful as watching a Bruce team).

Said it before, some people’s expectations have been lowered so much they are just happy that he has turned us into Wigan!!!

[sheepyvillian]

53 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

It’s not like we haven’t done that before beating Bristol city 5-0

oh wait

And, your point is ?

[weedman]

57 minutes ago, macandally said:

Were you there yesterday, you call that solid?

We looked porous every time they ran at us or strung five passes together.  We are treading water, we are not getting better and even if by some miracle we dragged ourselves up, this type of set up will see us relegated in a season.  We so need some form of plan it is painful (nearly as painful as watching a Bruce team).

Said it before, some people’s expectations have been lowered so much they are just happy that he has turned us into Wigan!!!

That's the gameplan, like I've said multiple times it was never going to be plain sailing in these early games. We had a new goalkeeper, new right back, Jedi at CB, new CM playing most of whom have barely trained as they've only been at the club a matter of days after a summer where we've been in turmoil. Players like Chester, Grealish etc wouldn't have had a clue where they'd be by the time the season started as by all accounts they were nailed on to be sold before the takeover, hence we were a bit all over the place. It will form into an organised defensive unit because that's what Bruce does.  

I'm fairly sure we'll also bring in at least another defender to bolster that a bit more, and hopefully a striker who can hold onto the ball for more than 5 seconds. In the meantime we're picking up points and not leaving ourselves an impossible gap to make up once it all comes together like last season 

Bruce has many faults, but literally any manager here would be suffering the same way at the moment, and one thing we all know he can do well is get a bit of fight out of the players, and it's that fight that has directly led us to turning our first 2 games from defeats into victories. 6 points gained from losing positions this season, some teams go all year without managing that 

[TRO]

When Steve first came in he intimated the team had no belief, mental strength or will to win, he went for a policy of experience, which was right imo......He has been here a while now and instilled much of that in to them.....from where we were, he has done a sterling job.

Its now time for phase 2.....The team has stability, He needs to pursue a policy now of power,pace and movement.

This project is ready for phase 2.....its now time.

Edited August 12, 2018 by TRO

[sne]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

When Steve first came in he intimated the team had no belief, mental strength or will to win, he went for a policy of experience, which was right imo......He has been here a while now and instilled much of that in to them.....from where we were, he has done a sterling job.

Its now time for phase 2.....The team has stability, He needs to pursue a policy of power,pace and movement.

This project is ready for phase 2.....its now time.

Then in all honestly it's probably also time to move on to another manager more suited for that task.

[terrytini]

5 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Last minute winners = good

Steve Bruce football = bad

What a treat those who currently enjoy watching us have to come. It'll blow your mind when we start consistently passing and moving.

It's like it's been forgotten that we're in the Championship. This isn't the elite we're playing against. It's teams that we've got about 20x the budget of.

 

Thing is we don’t all get interested or excited by the same thing. Liverpool were always famous for “ pass and move” and I found them very dull to watch. Many others. Villa have never played pass and move type football, whether Saunders, BFR, GT, Sir Brian, Gregory, or MON we’ve always played a more graft and wingers style...and I love it in irs various incarnations.

As for ‘tiki takka’ another fashionable style, it bores me stiff whether it’s Spain, Swansea, or Stourport. 

So by all means dislike what you see, but don’t assume we all like the same thing.

[terrytini]

4 hours ago, NoelVilla said:

Didn't watch us yesterday but I watched most of the Leeds game. The difference between Bielsa and Bruce are mind-blowing.. 

Or, just differences. Doesn’t blow my mind at all. There’s 101 ways to play a game of football. They all have strengths and weaknesses, if ‘ pressing, pace, and passing’ was the ‘right’ or only effective way, everyone would try it.

I fully understand people have their preferences, but don’t for a moment accept the view expressed by some that there is a ‘ good/ entertaining/ clever/ whatever’ way to play, and a ‘ dull/ outdated/ ineffective’ way to play.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Or, just differences. Doesn’t blow my mind at all. There’s 101 ways to play a game of football. They all have strengths and weaknesses, if ‘ pressing, pace, and passing’ was the ‘right’ or only effective way, everyone would try it.

I fully understand people have their preferences, but don’t for a moment accept the view expressed by some that there is a ‘ good/ entertaining/ clever/ whatever’ way to play, and a ‘ dull/ outdated/ ineffective’ way to play.

Terry......you are oh!   so right.

[terrytini]

19 minutes ago, TRO said:

When Steve first came in he intimated the team had no belief, mental strength or will to win, he went for a policy of experience, which was right imo......He has been here a while now and instilled much of that in to them.....from where we were, he has done a sterling job.

Its now time for phase 2.....The team has stability, He needs to pursue a policy of power,pace and movement.

This project is ready for phase 2.....its now time.

It’s weird this season how often I find myself disagreeing !

I wouldn’t bother debating this with some but as you have been pretty positive about Bruce I’d like to point to his stats over the last 42 or so games, which show plenty of goals, plenty of points, and Wins against Wolves, Fulham, Cardiff, and Boro, amongst others.

So I’d suggest your “ it’s time” and the implication that things need to change odd - we just need to carry on exactly as we are, albeit a couple of players will make that easier.

[terrytini]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

When Steve first came in he intimated the team had no belief, mental strength or will to win, he went for a policy of experience, which was right imo......He has been here a while now and instilled much of that in to them.....from where we were, he has done a sterling job.

Its now time for phase 2.....The team has stability, He needs to pursue a policy of power,pace and movement.

This project is ready for phase 2.....its now time.

Further to my Post above, He observed exactly this himself last September, altered his approach, and has reaped the benefits ever since, in my view.

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, terrytini said:

It’s weird this season how often I find myself disagreeing !

I wouldn’t bother debating this with some but as you have been pretty positive about Bruce I’d like to point to his stats over the last 42 or so games, which show plenty of goals, plenty of points, and Wins against Wolves, Fulham, Cardiff, and Boro, amongst others.

So I’d suggest your “ it’s time” and the implication that things need to change odd - we just need to carry on exactly as we are, albeit a couple of players will make that easier.

You maybe right about the players.....but i have seen enough centre forwards performances a villa park to know that Kodjia's leaves a lot to be desired of late.

We also lack pace Terry.......and we have done for  some time......I accept SB is planning further additions, but I can only comment on what I see or what we have got now.

[terrytini]

11 hours ago, eholm said:

Cannot agree with this fabled notion that ‘we are playing nothing like we are capable’. This implies that any moment now we will see more of a game plan, more of a system and more basic passing football.....none of which I have seen from Bruce in the 21 months he has been here!

What we saw yesterday IS Bruce’s football, it will not improve as the last nearly 2 years has shown us. There is no master plan that will eventually kick in and we suddenly understand our strategy and game plan. What we saw yesterday is what we have seen for the shoot time he has been here. Of course our players are capable of more but when they are not set up to be able to play to their potential it will never improve. 

Bruce said yesterday that he changed things to freshen it up and because he thought ‘we needed to go more direct’. Sorry Steve, I’ve never seen us play consistently any different to this ‘direct’ approach. Also, you think going more direct to a striker who is woefully out of form and is poor at holding the ball up and bringing others into play is an effective game plan?? Complete joke!!

Bielsa has done more in six weeks to ingrain a defined strategy and game plan into a team than you have done in 21 months. Just go please and give us a chance of making the most of the opportunity our new owners have given us. 

You appear to be simultaneously saying that we shoukd all by now know exactly how Bruce will have us playing, yet at the same time he has no game plan or clear strategy ?

Sorry if I’ve misunderstood but I re- read it three times and that’s how it sounds.

You say Bielsa has ‘done more in 6 weeks ..etc’........but in my view Bruce’s style has been clear since Day 1, and before that if you look at his other Clubs. I’d say practically every fan I know could list how Bruce approaches games.

You then suggest how much better our players could play, but they’ve averaged almost 2 Points a game for over 40 games.....how many more could they average ? It’d be some performance to manage nearly a hundred points this season. 

It often reads to me that people don’t like how he plays, but then reinterpret that as suggesting he doesn’t really know what he’s doing, or, if he does, he’s misguided in his choice.

[terrytini]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

You maybe right about the players.....but i have seen enough centre forwards performances a villa park to know that Kodjia's leaves a lot to be desired of late.

We also lack pace Terry.......and we have done for  some time......I accept SB is planning further additions, but I can only comment on what I see or what we have got now.

Yes I agree about Kodja......but I read your post as meaning Bruce has to alter his approach, whereas in my view he has done so and it’s been profitable. In fact, the fact that he’s achieved the points he has without a proper striker speaks volumes for how well he’s done.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, terrytini said:

You appear to be simultaneously saying that we shoukd all by now know exactly how Bruce will have us playing, yet at the same time he has no game plan or clear strategy ?

Sorry if I’ve misunderstood but I re- read it three times and that’s how it sounds.

You say Bielsa has ‘done more in 6 weeks ..etc’........but in my view Bruce’s style has been clear since Day 1, and before that if you look at his other Clubs. I’d say practically every fan I know could list how Bruce approaches games.

You then suggest how much better our players could play, but they’ve averaged almost 2 Points a game for over 40 games.....how many more could they average ? It’d be some performance to manage nearly a hundred points this season. 

It often reads to me that people don’t like how he plays, but then reinterpret that as suggesting he doesn’t really know what he’s doing, or, if he does, he’s misguided in his choice.

Ha ha......your argument is reasoned Imo

there are things that infuriated me on saturday.

but your point is difficult to argue with.....well articulated Terry.

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Yes I agree about Kodja......but I read your post as meaning Bruce has to alter his approach, whereas in my view he has done so and it’s been profitable. In fact, the fact that he’s achieved the points he has without a proper striker speaks volumes for how well he’s done.

Perhaps i want my cake and eat it.

I have always seen our project since SB has been here as progressive, so in incremental fashion and a progressive improvement in player quality, i would expect that to  manifest itself in to a better quality football eventually.

I don't subscribe to a theory that Steve Bruce will always play the same style of football irrespective of the personnel at his disposal. I would expect it to be better, with better quality players.

If i am wrong and that is not the case, then I am not sure that i would sign up to go a long  spell of this football.

poor first touch, lack of touch tight defending, lack of movement off the ball and  little pressing and the likes is expected when your coming back from a dark place.....but all part of a style thats is expected long term, no not for me.

but i am happy with the start.

Edited August 12, 2018 by TRO

[terrytini]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Perhaps i want my cake and eat it.

We get a goal scorer and you will have your cake, your icing on the cake, your cherry on the top of the icing on the cake, and you can eat it and eat it and eat it all the way to winning the League.

Without one, I fear we may only finish as high as Second.

[DaveAV1]

10 minutes ago, terrytini said:

We get a goal scorer and you will have your cake, your icing on the cake, your cherry on the top of the icing on the cake, and you can eat it and eat it and eat it all the way to winning the League.

Without one, I fear we may only finish as high as Second.

Without strengthening our central defence we may need a hell of a lot of cake. 

[srsmithusa]

56 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Or, just differences. Doesn’t blow my mind at all. There’s 101 ways to play a game of football. They all have strengths and weaknesses, if ‘ pressing, pace, and passing’ was the ‘right’ or only effective way, everyone would try it.

I fully understand people have their preferences, but don’t for a moment accept the view expressed by some that there is a ‘ good/ entertaining/ clever/ whatever’ way to play, and a ‘ dull/ outdated/ ineffective’ way to play.

Re: the bolded part.... as it is, only the really successful teams do it.      I'm not expecting you to agree.  You and I like different styles.  But we both like it when Villa win.  It 's just horrible  (and perhaps completely unrelated) that we didn't win enough playing a way you enjoy.  Now, it might be that style impacts results..... or style might not impact results at all.  I guess it's clear which of us thinks a more pressing, pace, and passing" style creates more wins.  (Oh, and Klopp, Biesla, Guardiola, and Deschamps agree with me.)  But fair enough, you keep enjoying the style you like to watch and we'll just hope for the best on the wins this season.    p.s. I'm not as irritated as this smart-ass response may sound.  I'm actually just getting bored with it all.