Roberto Di Matteo

[bobzy]

On 17/09/2016 at 19:23, Demitri_C said:

Notice how Rowett average players just beat Wednesday a team we failed to beat. That's a real manager not like the pants di Matteo 

I'm going to guess you didn't watch this game.  Sheff Wed were all over Blues early on and even hit the bar 1 minute before Blues scored their 92nd minute winner.  It wasn't great management - they got lucky.

On 17/09/2016 at 19:17, AshVilla said:

McCarthy showed more tactical nouse in this one game than RDM has done in the past 8

They almost pulled it off as well

Play 8-1-1 until the 85th minute and then chuck on two strikers.  Yeah, I'm sure we'd love to see that "tactical nouse" every week.

[bobzy]

I really don't understand the crisis here, by the way, and feel embarrassed by association that a whole load of fans are calling for our managers' head.

He may not turn out to be the right appointment, but wanting a guy sacked after 8 games with an almost entirely new team is the stuff of self-righteous fan groups - it shouldn't be us.  I hate what Xia's money seems to have done to the fanbase, to be honest, and we're fast becoming a parody of modern-day football.  Forget the poor seasons in the Premier League, that is the most embarrassing thing in recent times.

Our last couple of games have been disheartening (in particular against Ipswich... was Gestede injured?  I didn't really understand playing width but with no striker to sit centrally) but we've still only lost twice this season and still played well on the whole.  People were loving the signings of McCormack and Kodjia in particular - but our major downfall so far has been strikers not putting the ball in the net.  Shall we give them some time to actually understand each other and what the manager wants from them?!

I've never felt as disengaged with other fans as I do right now.  We seem to have shifted attitude with the drop into the Championship and assumed we're able to walk it, solely because we've spent £55m.  It's nonsense.

[blandy]

5 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I really don't understand the crisis here, by the way, and feel embarrassed by association that a whole load of fans are calling for our managers' head.

He may not turn out to be the right appointment, but wanting a guy sacked after 8 games with an almost entirely new team is the stuff of self-righteous fan groups - it shouldn't be us.  I hate what Xia's money seems to have done to the fanbase, to be honest, and we're fast becoming a parody of modern-day football.  Forget the poor seasons in the Premier League, that is the most embarrassing thing in recent times.

Our last couple of games have been disheartening (in particular against Ipswich... was Gestede injured?  I didn't really understand playing width but with no striker to sit centrally) but we've still only lost twice this season and still played well on the whole.  People were loving the signings of McCormack and Kodjia in particular - but our major downfall so far has been strikers not putting the ball in the net.  Shall we give them some time to actually understand each other and what the manager wants from them?!

I've never felt as disengaged with other fans as I do right now.  We seem to have shifted attitude with the drop into the Championship and assumed we're able to walk it, solely because we've spent £55m.  It's nonsense.

That is exactly, exactly, how I feel too. Other than I'm personally not embarrassed by the people calling for the manager to go, just profoundly bemused.

But the disengagement with people is almost total. I genuinely feel like people have lost their senses (as they might also say about me).

The only phrase that I can think of is "what the actual f*** ?"

Lost it, gone, is there some sort of virus or something?

[lapal_fan]

Bobzy - Agree 1 billion %.  Although I would add, the people who are acting like entitled so-and-so's always say "I'm not entitled, but (we should beat XXXX)" - NO WE SHOULDN'T.  We are a pro sports team Vs other PRO SPORTS TEAMS.  EVERYONE WANTS TO WIN, but that's not how it goes.  Show some humility ffs.

Blandy - EXACTLY the same.

and that kids, is why Cricket is a welcome relief from this opinionated, self entitled, shit of a sport (at the moment).  $$$ has ruined it.

[PaulC]

36 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I'm going to guess you didn't watch this game.  Sheff Wed were all over Blues early on and even hit the bar 1 minute before Blues scored their 92nd minute winner.  It wasn't great management - they got lucky.

Play 8-1-1 until the 85th minute and then chuck on two strikers.  Yeah, I'm sure we'd love to see that "tactical nouse" every week.

Maybe our luck will change soon and Rowett's will run out

[bobzy]

10 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Maybe our luck will change soon and Rowett's will run out

I didn't say Rowett has been lucky as a manager - he's worked incredibly well at Blues and turned them into a solid team.  But to say he's the man for us because they scraped a win against Sheff Wed whereas we lost after an error?  Yeah, OK!

However, drifting slightly off topic, it's an entirely different type of job and, apparently, demand.  Blues are hard to break down and then counter - that's what Rowett has done well and it's what he did well at Burton.  He plays on the fact that his sides will be viewed as "underdogs" and makes them solid and functional.  Nothing spectacular, no flair at all and no emphasis on ball retention.  Just soak up pressure and then hit the opposition quickly.  Blues have the lowest average possession in the Championship, but have had the 9th most amount of shots.  That's how Burton worked under Rowett, that's how Blues work under him too.  One of my Bluenose mates doesn't enjoy it and says every game will be 0-0.  Similar to Pulis at West Brom, I guess.

Considering people on here are berating Di Matteo for being too defensive, I shudder to think what the view would be if Gary Rowett was here.

[PieFacE]

Kinda do agree Bobzy, if it was a manager who I thought had what it takes to get us promoted I would be fully in your camp. But I didn't want RDM to begin with, I've seen nothing from him that makes me think he can get us promoted. I can't help but feel that every game that goes by where we're "giving him time" is just another week wasted. 

If we stick by him, and come the end of the season we're up there then fair enough, but I doubt it very much, and I think a better manager could have us up there.

[Dr_Pangloss]

We stuck with Sherwood too long, so there's really a limit to how long we should stick with RDM, I've always said to give him til the end of the month to get results, so far he's failing. 

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

I'm going to guess you didn't watch this game.  Sheff Wed were all over Blues early on and even hit the bar 1 minute before Blues scored their 92nd minute winner.  It wasn't great management - they got lucky.

Play 8-1-1 until the 85th minute and then chuck on two strikers.  Yeah, I'm sure we'd love to see that "tactical nouse" every week.

You create your own luck, fact is they are above us in the table and spent peanuts. cant dismiss that as lucky. Rowett is a very good manager

[Tommo_b]

11 hours ago, Villaphan04 said:

i was just thinking the same thing

Shows you what can still be too.

[striker]

10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

You create your own luck, fact is they are above us in the table and spent peanuts. cant dismiss that as lucky. Rowett is a very good manager

Using Everton as a yardstick, last season they were missing a bit of pace and energy in midfield. Everton under Koeman have addressed those issues and look a very solid team now.

The point i'm making here is that for many seasons Villa have been poor in midfield yet time and time again they have failed to address that. After selling Gana to Everton he was replaced by a young player with a poor injury record. Jedinak was then signed but is he really much of an improvement on Westwood and Gardner? Gil was sold and a fortune spent on McCormack. Has McCormack been much of an upgrade on Gil when you consider the outlay?

Villa have improved their defence and forward line but neither are really kicking into gear yet because the midfield don't have the creativity to supply the forwards while there is not enough energy or physicality to protect the defence.  

[AvfcTheObsession]

5 minutes ago, striker said:

Villa have improved their defence and forward line but neither are really kicking into gear yet because the midfield don't have the creativity to supply the forwards while there is not enough energy or physicality to protect the defence.  

Sadly, this hits the nail on the head and we can't do much about it until January. Although I think even a 35-year-old Leon Osman could come in as a free agent and be an upgrade on Westwood and Gardner. Not sure if we'd have the legs with him alongside Jedinak though?

[lapal_fan]

14 minutes ago, striker said:

Using Everton as a yardstick, last season they were missing a bit of pace and energy in midfield. Everton under Koeman have addressed those issues and look a very solid team now.

The point i'm making here is that for many seasons Villa have been poor in midfield yet time and time again they have failed to address that. After selling Gana to Everton he was replaced by a young player with a poor injury record. Jedinak was then signed but is he really much of an improvement on Westwood and Gardner? Gil was sold and a fortune spent on McCormack. Has McCormack been much of an upgrade on Gil when you consider the outlay?

Villa have improved their defence and forward line but neither are really kicking into gear yet because the midfield don't have the creativity to supply the forwards while there is not enough energy or physicality to protect the defence.  

It's a good point and one I've made previously.  However, maybe with Gardner's good form last year when Forest fans were raving about him and Westwood at least, sort of, holding his own last year, maybe we thought we were covered with the purchases of Tish and Jed.  Especially with the lower standard.  The area's we bought in I was pleased with.

As has been said, we've got Jan transfer window to fix anything at the point.

[sexbelowsound]

Great post @bobzy. 

[Eastie]

 regarding the  McCormack point I read yesterday he has created more chances than any player this season in the championship so far - I have no worries on him but I think we are weak on midfield back up as both Westwood and Gardner are back ups at best - I was hugely impressed by tish but as striker points out his injury record is a concern - we should have added more steel in midfield and utilised the loan market . 

We have relied on two lightweights in midfield so far this season and paid the price - I don't think Gil would have been much use to be honest .

i am however quite happy with the players rdm has signed but feel he has struggled to get the formation right and decide on the best way to utilise these new signings . 

The next 3 games will tell us a lot about rdm and where we are going . 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Eastie

[rubberman]

22 minutes ago, striker said:

Using Everton as a yardstick, last season they were missing a bit of pace and energy in midfield. Everton under Koeman have addressed those issues and look a very solid team now.

The point i'm making here is that for many seasons Villa have been poor in midfield yet time and time again they have failed to address that. After selling Gana to Everton he was replaced by a young player with a poor injury record. Jedinak was then signed but is he really much of an improvement on Westwood and Gardner? Gil was sold and a fortune spent on McCormack. Has McCormack been much of an upgrade on Gil when you consider the outlay?

Villa have improved their defence and forward line but neither are really kicking into gear yet because the midfield don't have the creativity to supply the forwards while there is not enough energy or physicality to protect the defence.  

Yes.  He had provided the most chances in the league pre-injury and for the last game and a half since he's been out we've suddenly regressed as a team.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

You create your own luck, fact is they are above us in the table and spent peanuts. cant dismiss that as lucky. Rowett is a very good manager

I didn't say he was lucky as a manager - read my post just up a bit on how I view Rowett.

[RimmyJimmer]

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

I really don't understand the crisis here, by the way, and feel embarrassed by association that a whole load of fans are calling for our managers' head.

He may not turn out to be the right appointment, but wanting a guy sacked after 8 games with an almost entirely new team is the stuff of self-righteous fan groups - it shouldn't be us.  I hate what Xia's money seems to have done to the fanbase, to be honest, and we're fast becoming a parody of modern-day football.  Forget the poor seasons in the Premier League, that is the most embarrassing thing in recent times.

Our last couple of games have been disheartening (in particular against Ipswich... was Gestede injured?  I didn't really understand playing width but with no striker to sit centrally) but we've still only lost twice this season and still played well on the whole.  People were loving the signings of McCormack and Kodjia in particular - but our major downfall so far has been strikers not putting the ball in the net.  Shall we give them some time to actually understand each other and what the manager wants from them?!

I've never felt as disengaged with other fans as I do right now.  We seem to have shifted attitude with the drop into the Championship and assumed we're able to walk it, solely because we've spent £55m.  It's nonsense.

 

I'm embarrassed by some fellow villa fans too, the over reaction after each result is really childish. It does seem to be a villatalk thing though, I haven't encountered this nonsense in the 'real world'  

[Villan4Life]

21 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Who's Pepe? If we are talking about Pep then it's a silly comparison as he is probably the best manager in the world with the richest owners in the world.

Pepe Mel?

 

[bobzy]

2 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

We stuck with Sherwood too long, so there's really a limit to how long we should stick with RDM, I've always said to give him til the end of the month to get results, so far he's failing. 

I agree to an extent, but it's a different situation.  With Sherwood (and Garde and Black) we were fighting for survival and therefore needed results immediately otherwise we were screwed.  This time round, we're creating a new side to fight at (hopefully) the other end of the table.  Would we like to be promoted back to the Premier League immediately?  Of course!  Is it a necessity?  I'm not convinced it is, no.  There's been mention of a "2 year plan" to achieve our goal too.

I think that results basically need to be not completely terrible in the short term as long as, overall, we're improving and going in the right direction.  Now, certainly fair to say that the past 2 games have not seen us head in the right direction - if anything, we've gotten worse (Forest > Brentford > Ipswich) - but that's still a 2 game slip.

I think I said earlier in the thread, I'll be judging Di Matteo after about 20 games in the league.  By then he should know what he's working with and develop our game accordingly.  If we're still languishing in mid to lower-mid table at that point, there's an argument to be had over sacking.  Now, though?  Hmmm...