Mantis Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Many of the issues last season are gone but the issues of the last few years still remain sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 32 minutes ago, Mantis said: Read the rest of my post. Certain clubs (indeed most clubs) have certain "baggage" which can subconsciously impose itself on the people within the club. The baggage can of course be both good and bad. Right now the club itself as an institution is associated with weakness and failure and I don't think the effect of that should be downplayed. Sorry, Mantis, I really cannot go along with this. Any baggage we have at the moment would be generated by this team this season ie.the losing mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Just now, AntrimBlack said: Sorry, Mantis, I really cannot go along with this. Any baggage we have at the moment would be generated by this team this season ie.the losing mentality. Look I'm not trying to excuse the current players and management - they are far from blameless. My point is that Aston Villa has become associated with frailty and weakness over the years and that is bound to have a subconscious effect. You have to look at the last few years when trying to explain this season as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 1 minute ago, Mantis said: Look I'm not trying to excuse the current players and management - they are far from blameless. My point is that Aston Villa has become associated with frailty and weakness over the years and that is bound to have a subconscious effect. You have to look at the last few years when trying to explain this season as well. No. I don't agree for the reasons previously stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) The debate about us carrying baggage from last season is an interesting one. Personally I think the owner has swept through the club like a whirlwind and in many ways been a breath of fresh air. Likewise the bits we have heard from Wyness and what he has apparently been doing behind the scenes has been refreshing. I think the impact Di Matteo has had so far has been subdued but I guess that is what comes with having only won one game as he is now having to defend a poor start and not be in a position to be buoyant on the back of a good start. You can make as many changes to personnel as you like from the owner down to the stewards but the only thing that really matters is winning games. We also talk of this being a new team that shouldn't be scarred by what happened last season but of the 14 that played a part on Saturday 8 were here last season and three others were unused subs. I think this is where the manager is crucial in that it is his job to ensure that there is no hangover from last season and he has certainly had the backing in terms of being allowed to bring players in and ship players out to help ensure that is the case. Of those that have remained he is responsible for getting into their heads or ensuring he brings in players with the right mentality to rub off on others and in that regard I think he has done well. It is tactically where at times he has been at fault. Edited September 20, 2016 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 20, 2016 Moderator Share Posted September 20, 2016 2 hours ago, AntrimBlack said: It keeps being brought up, but with the changes we have made, it is inconceivable that there can be any connection with last year's mentality. That's the opposite of what RDM has said. A while back he said it was the single biggest issue - this was before he was getting stick for the recent poor games - it wasn't an excuse it was the main task. As much as changing 6 players and getting rid of some of the bad wood has been helpful, many of the players are the same. The supporters are the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 40 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: No. I don't agree for the reasons previously stated. So you don't think the fact that we've become so associated with weakness and defeat as a club has any sort of effect whatsoever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 35 minutes ago, Mantis said: So you don't think the fact that we've become so associated with weakness and defeat as a club has any sort of effect whatsoever? I don't. At least certainly not up until Brentford. From there I am unsure, but it's not enough evidence to go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 40 minutes ago, Mantis said: So you don't think the fact that we've become so associated with weakness and defeat as a club has any sort of effect whatsoever? Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Well then I disagree with you, and agree with blandy and Mantis. If nothing else, the disbelief amongst fans that we can hold on, and the generally funereal atmosphere, is going to have a negative effect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 47 minutes ago, blandy said: That's the opposite of what RDM has said. A while back he said it was the single biggest issue - this was before he was getting stick for the recent poor games - it wasn't an excuse it was the main task. As much as changing 6 players and getting rid of some of the bad wood has been helpful, many of the players are the same. The supporters are the same. I was not aware that he said that. If he did say that, and believes it, then he is making his job even more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Well then I disagree with you, and agree with blandy and Mantis. If nothing else, the disbelief amongst fans that we can hold on, and the generally funereal atmosphere, is going to have a negative effect. Yep, and you can bet that deep down the players and management have that same disbelief too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) 19 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Well then I disagree with you, and agree with blandy and Mantis. If nothing else, the disbelief amongst fans that we can hold on, and the generally funereal atmosphere, is going to have a negative effect. You've referred to the atmosphere being funereal a few times and I must take umbrage. There was a fair bit of tension on Wednesday night but generally it has been pretty good this season. I don't know if you go to many away games but overall we're a decent set of home fans compared to others, when the Holte End pipes up not many compares. Also particular having the North Stand pick up a bit of slack is a bonus that most clubs don't have. Our away fans are universally praised every time we venture out. I think away we're right up there with the best in the land. It does rankle me a touch when people slag off our support and I do find myself wondering what they themselves are doing to change it. I'm not looking at you Hanoi with this but a lot of them don't even go to games. Edited September 20, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 If the atmosphere at the game is causing the players issues then how do the Man City players find their way out of bed in the morning? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 20, 2016 Moderator Share Posted September 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: You've referred to the atmosphere being funereal a few times and I must take umbrage. There was a fair bit of tension on Wednesday night I sort of agree - it's not "silence" that is the issue, but tension. Many grounds have periods where the crowd goes quiet for a while during games, and it's often a reflection for a stale game, tbh. But there's a definite "thing" where a crowd getting edgy transmits itself to the players. Where anguished groans and frustrated sighs spread from seat to seat to pitch. There's every reason perhaps for us lot to act that way given what we've witnessed over recent years. I don't think it's intentional, but it is counter productive. Equally, the players can change it by having a bit of character and not going to bits and being rubbish. Football fans are pretty much the same everywhere. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: You've referred to the atmosphere being funereal a few times and I must take umbrage. There was a fair bit of tension on Wednesday night but generally it has been pretty good this season. I don't know if you go to many away games but overall we're a decent set of home fans compared to others, when the Holte End pipes up not many compares. Also particular having the North Stand pick up a bit of slack is a bonus that most clubs don't have. Our away fans are universally praised every time we venture out. I think away we're right up there with the best in the land. It does rankle me a touch when people slag off our support and I do find myself wondering what they themselves are doing to change it. I'm not looking at you Hanoi with this but a lot of them don't even go to games. Personally, I think our away support is brilliant and our home support is pretty shit. Overall, we're in the middle as far as football fans go. I can't remember the atmosphere against Rotherham or Huddersfield (I'd assume buoyant?) but it seemed poor against Forest (the only vocal support on telly were the Forest fans, who seemed loud to be fair to them) and against Brentford. As an aside, I don't go to many games personally because it costs me way too much with travel included and I don't find the whole experience worth it (aside from the odd couple of games a season). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 6 minutes ago, bobzy said: Personally, I think our away support is brilliant and our home support is pretty shit. Overall, we're in the middle as far as football fans go. I can't remember the atmosphere against Rotherham or Huddersfield (I'd assume buoyant?) but it seemed poor against Forest (the only vocal support on telly were the Forest fans, who seemed loud to be fair to them) and against Brentford. As an aside, I don't go to many games personally because it costs me way too much with travel included and I don't find the whole experience worth it (aside from the odd couple of games a season). The cameras are right next to the away so always seem louder. From the Holte, I actually thought the forest fans were crap and literally only made noise when they scored. Throughout the game they barely made a noise. Going off topic, but personally I feel it is up to the players to lift the crowd. Strong tackles (which I thought we'd see from Jedinak), shots, good chances etc. let's not forget the fans pay to be there and it is seen as a form of entertainment 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) @bobzy when you refer to our home support as "shit" who are you comparing us to? Because in order for it to be shit, surely it must be demonstrably shit compared to other clubs? I sit in the Holte. It's not shit. It has been especially at times last season, but it's not shit right now. Every time we play, home and away, we receive praise from the opposition fans regarding our support. Maybe it's different in other parts of the ground. Maybe the grumbles are more apparent. I think our support is immense. Edited September 20, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Just now, dont_do_it_doug. said: @bobzy when you refer to our home support as "shit", via your TV screen, who are you comparing us to? Because in order for it to be shit, surely it must be demonstrably shit compared to other clubs. I sit in the Holte. It's not shit. It has been especially at times last season, but it's not shit right now. Every time we play, home and away, we receive praise from the opposition fans regarding our support. Maybe it's different in other parts of the ground. Maybe the grumbles are more apparent. I think our support is immense. The other clubs who I watch live and seem noisier than us. Plus the few times I've been to Villa Park recently (which, granted, hasn't been the best of times... but surely is also a better indicator of how our support is?) - but I'm happy to accept I don't give an overall view to things. As mikey says, if the microphones are right next to the away support but nowhere else in the ground then it would obscure things. I also think our attendances at home are pretty shit (I'm adding to that statistic, I guess!), but we seem to travel really well. It's like we have a core of maybe 25k fans who will turn up to everything and then a whole load of half-arsed fans like me (and better) making up the rest. I can't get an away ticket for love nor money, but home ones I could get on the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 2 hours ago, AntrimBlack said: Sorry, Mantis, I really cannot go along with this. Any baggage we have at the moment would be generated by this team this season ie.the losing mentality. Losing mentality ? We have lost once in our last 7 league games . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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