Roberto Di Matteo

[Villafied]

I guess everyone has their own views, and we really do need a win or two to keep in touch.

But I'm a bit surprised there has been any debate over RDM already. The bloke has come into a decimated football club with a broken spirit and terrible culture. In a few short months he has had rebuild a culture and mentality, evaluate the players that were here, identify new players he wanted, manage to recruit them. And then turn them into a team that works. Pep, Klopp and all the rest would be struggling as much with all that. He's also had to deal with quite a few injuries, just as players are getting used to each other.

Then he has to deal with the fans.....the football we a playing isn't that bad. Its not premier league standard, but we're not in the prem.... yet some are already on his back. How does he instil the confidence in the players and squad if the players are already getting boos and seemingly walking on egg shells?

I think he has done an excellent job so far. If a handful of those shots had gone in it would be altogether different. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

11 minutes ago, Villafied said:

I guess everyone has their own views, and we really do need a win or two to keep in touch.

But I'm a bit surprised there has been any debate over RDM already. The bloke has come into a decimated football club with a broken spirit and terrible culture. In a few short months he has had rebuild a culture and mentality, evaluate the players that were here, identify new players he wanted, manage to recruit them. And then turn them into a team that works. Pep, Klopp and all the rest would be struggling as much with all that. He's also had to deal with quite a few injuries, just as players are getting used to each other.

Then he has to deal with the fans.....the football we a playing isn't that bad. Its not premier league standard, but we're not in the prem.... yet some are already on his back. How does he instil the confidence in the players and squad if the players are already getting boos and seemingly walking on egg shells?

I think he has done an excellent job so far. If a handful of those shots had gone in it would be altogether different. 

LOL seriously? No way has he done an excellent job. No one expected us to to be top, but where we are in the table and the results so far have been very poor and not indicative of a manager doing an "excellent" job. 

[Gary Thomas]

1 minute ago, Villafied said:

How does he instil the confidence in the players and squad if the players are already getting boos and seemingly walking on egg shells?

 

I think the only answer is to win games.  He can talk about mentality and confidence but it is the experience of winning games that will lift player confidence and release the pressure that is starting to build. Fans should not boo IMO - it hurts the team and it hurts the club - but to be fair I haven't heard much of that apart from after the Brentford game when people were completely gutted by yet another capitulation.  I still think the vast majority are behind RDM and the team but they have to deliver at some point.  Sat would be a good start. 

[Demitri_C]

11 minutes ago, Villafied said:

I guess everyone has their own views, and we really do need a win or two to keep in touch.

But I'm a bit surprised there has been any debate over RDM already. The bloke has come into a decimated football club with a broken spirit and terrible culture. In a few short months he has had rebuild a culture and mentality, evaluate the players that were here, identify new players he wanted, manage to recruit them. And then turn them into a team that works. Pep, Klopp and all the rest would be struggling as much with all that. He's also had to deal with quite a few injuries, just as players are getting used to each other.

Then he has to deal with the fans.....the football we a playing isn't that bad. Its not premier league standard, but we're not in the prem.... yet some are already on his back. How does he instil the confidence in the players and squad if the players are already getting boos and seemingly walking on egg shells?

I think he has done an excellent job so far. If a handful of those shots had gone in it would be altogether different. 

I think next 5 games will shape which way his management will go. We have pretty poor in our last two games which is abit worrying, but if we look at it from a positive point of view we haven't lost either of those games either. Once we start turning those draws into wins then hopefully we are on our way. But I do really think we need to be in the mix by January as the ACN is definitely going to have an impact on us.  

[striker]

15 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

I do agree with your point regarding midfield, it's the one area I feel we didn't significantly improve in. I would have got rid of Gardner or Westwood and got one more cm in.

but the McCormack point I completely disagree. He looks like the one player that can make something happen from nothing. He creates and scores when was last time we had that? His goal against forest was such clever movement, we haven't had that since bent

Ok maybe i'm being more than a little harsh on McCormack? I so want him to be the success to get Villa going but i'm not sure he has done that. Would Gil have shown less so far which was my point? Maybe it's a fitness issue more than anything else? I'm also not sure that Jedi or Tish have been great signings either hence my original post concerning the Villa midfield. Much time to improve though but i'm not sure Di Matteo will be given that time if Villa don't start winning games soon on a consistent basis?  

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

I disagree - we were poor in the second half in particular against Brentford, but certainly not "absolutely atrocious".  It didn't seem like Brentford would score, even with us sitting deeper.  Again, we started the game brightly and should've scored at least 2.

I also disagree with your assessment of no improvement over the games.  Our best game this season has been against Forest IMO - that was a whopping 3 games ago; not the first game of the season.  I actually thought the game against Ipswich was our worst at that is the most recent.

The last bit is nonsense too.  Fans, on the whole, have been happy with the business we've done and Di Matteo has played pretty much all of his signings.  The one criticism I have with his "throw a load of players together" approach is that we can't fit all the attackers on the pitch at once, so why try?  But, then again, when he played Kodjia essentially as a right winger... he scored.

We were terrible against Brentford pretty much from the point we scored but you have your view and I have mine we will have to agree to disagree I'm certainly not changing my view on what I withnessed at the game.

Once again, you are free to disagree if you think we've improved I don't think we have.

As for the last bit of my post being nonsense, again you are free to disagree but it isn't nonsense. Yes the fans on the whole have been happy with the business done and most of his signings, I'm not quite sure why you feel the need to state that as I've not said otherwise and it has no relation to the point I made. The point I was making was pretty much the one you've made above.

The players he signed are good players, but particularly in the case of the forwards he doesn't seem to know how he wants to use them. It seems like Di Matteo's strategy this summer was buy as many of the top scorers as he could without really having a structure in mind how they were going to fit into the side. So far at various times we've seen him pretty much just throw them all in the mix and hope something comes off, that has been at the expense of a midfield with sufficient strength or even numbers at times and its cost us points including from a winning position against Forest.

So far its not been too different to Keegan ala mid 90's only without the goals.

[markavfc40]

11 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

We were absolutely atrocious at home to Brentford.

What concerns me is that we are getting worse not better, I've seen no improvement whatsoever over the course of the games.

You are completely right in your second point about not being able to throw a load of players together and expect them to play well together, sadly that pretty much sums up what Di Matteo has tried so far.

I can appreciate where you are coming from here.

I think given the standard of the opposition we were very poor against Brentford and a draw was the most we deserved. If we look at the last two games then I’d also agree that we are getting worse.

In terms of your final point then I don’t think RDM has simply thrown a group of players together and hoped that it will work. Over the summer a number of players came in to positions we would all agree needed addressing. Goalkeeper, centre back, right back, centre mid and up top. For me overall I would say he did well in the window as Chester and Elphick are good solid centre backs at this level, likewise De Laet at right back, Jedinak is the strong midfielder we have been crying out for years for, Tshibola looks promising from the little we have seen and McCormack and Kodija are proven scorers at this level. I also think we have signed a number of good characters who will lead by example again something lacking for a number of years.

I think the squad still lacks width though and a natural number 10 and having spent an absolute fortune at this level I can see the argument that the squad should be more balanced. I do believe though that this squad as it stands, if used correctly, should be capable of competing for promotion.

My worry with RDM now is that he will go too defensive. The late goal conceded against Forest seems to have triggered a change in approach when in fact he should have maintained the approach we had shown against Forest. Had we have taken half our chances against Forest we’d have been out of sight long before they scored. Against Brentford though whilst still having attacking players on the pitch he asked them to play with too much regard for the defensive side which to me, as shown, is not the way to get the best out of this squad. Against Ipswich he went even more defensive.

Draws won’t get us into the mix for promotion. We need wins and we need them now. We have the players to win games we just need the manager to send them out with an attacking mind set, which in fairness to him he did up until a couple of games ago. If he is questioning himself so early and changing our approach so dramatically then that to me is a concern. We need to get back to what was working which is being very attack minded and maintain the belief that performances will eventually yield the results they deserve. Last two games due to a defensive mind set has meant that draws are the most we deserved and that is not good enough.

Edited September 20, 2016 by markavfc40

[TrentVilla]

Just now, markavfc40 said:

I can appreciate where you are coming from here.

I think given the standard of the opposition we were very poor against Brentford and a draw was the most we deserved. If we look at the last two games then I’d also agree that we are getting worse.

In terms of your final point then I don’t think RDM has simply thrown a group of players together and hoped that it will work. Over the summer a number of players came in to positions we would all agree needed addressing. Goalkeeper, centre back, right back, centre mid and up top. For me overall I would say he did well in the window as Chester and Elphick are good solid centre backs at this level, likewise De Laet at right back, Jedinak is the strong midfielder we have been crying out for years for, Tshibola looks promising form the little we have seen and McCormack and Kodija are proven scorers at this level. I also think we have signed a number of good characters who will lead by example again something lacking for a number of years.

I think the squad still lacks width though and a natural number 10 and having spent an absolute fortune at this level I can see the argument that the squad should be more balanced. I do believe though that this squad as it stands, if used correctly, should be capable of competing for promotion.

My worry with RDM now is that he will go too defensive. The late goal conceded against Forest seems to have triggered a change in approach when in fact he should have maintained the approach we had shown against Forest. Had we have taken half our chances against Forest we’d have been out of sight long before they scored. Against Brentford though whilst still having attacking players on the pitch he asked them to play with too much regard for the defensive side which to me, as shown, is not the way to get the best out of this squad. Against Ipswich he went even more defensive.

Draws won’t get us into the mix for promotion. We need wins and we need them now. We have the players to win games we just need the manager to send them out with an attacking mind set, which in fairness to him he did up until a couple of games ago. If he is questioning himself so early and changing our approach so dramatically then that to me is a concern. We need to get back to what was working which is being very attack minded and maintain the belief that performances will eventually yield the results they deserve. Last two games due to a defensive mind set has meant that draws are the most we deserved and that is not good enough.

I completely agree he did well in the window. My only criticism would be that he spent too much on forwards and not enough on midfield, I think he has been struggling to fit players in and make up for that ever since and its cost us.

I also completely agree with you on what the squad lacks and that it should be capable of competing for promotion. That is kind of the basis of my criticism and it is criticism at this point, I'm not calling for his head but I am becoming less hopeful he will turn out to be the manager we need.

The amount of games played so far isn't sufficient to have bedded in a new team, that isn't my issue, my issue is that I can't actually see what he is trying to do and that is hugely concerning.

Once again I completely agree with you re going too defensive post Forest, he seems to have lost his nerve a little and not had the courage of his convictions. We paid for that against Brentford when we tried to shut up shop once we went ahead. Now I know people will say you can't have it both ways, you can't be critical for failing to shut up shop against Forest but then trying to do it against Brentford and I can understand why people would say that. However the situations in both games were very different and the choices made were in my view incorrect and that is in the case of the Brentford game a direct result I believe of the Forest result.

Management is about making the right decisions at the right times, irrespective of the outcome because other things influence the outcome, all you can do is make the right decision at the time and I don't think he has been doing that.

It all comes down to balance, balance of the team and balance of tactics and game mentality. At the moment RDM in my view hasn't got any of these things right, it remains to be seen if he can, I don't think he will get a huge amount of time to do it.

[Grasshopper]

0-2 it'll get ugly

0-3/4/5  big trouble

[markavfc40]

33 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Once again I completely agree with you re going too defensive post Forest, he seems to have lost his nerve a little and not had the courage of his convictions. We paid for that against Brentford when we tried to shut up shop once we went ahead. Now I know people will say you can't have it both ways, you can't be critical for failing to shut up shop against Forest but then trying to do it against Brentford and I can understand why people would say that. However the situations in both games were very different and the choices made were in my view incorrect and that is in the case of the Brentford game a direct result I believe of the Forest result.

Management is about making the right decisions at the right times, irrespective of the outcome because other things influence the outcome, all you can do is make the right decision at the time and I don't think he has been doing that.

It all comes down to balance, balance of the team and balance of tactics and game mentality. At the moment RDM in my view hasn't got any of these things right, it remains to be seen if he can, I don't think he will get a huge amount of time to do it.

Totally agree with all of the above.

I think his in game management has been poor which has now led to him starting games in the wrong manner. Against Forest we got everything pretty much spot on up until the time we took the lead. At that stage we had one natural centre midfielder on the pitch. You therefore as a manager either instruct the team to keep pushing for a third and kill the game off or you make a change, bring on another midfielder and try to hold what you have. We did neither. Against Brentford we were poor after we scored and I felt half time came at a good time for us. We then though tried to play 45 mins holding onto our lead, sat deep and allowed Brentford to come onto us with Kodija and Amavi having a starting position in our own half instead and getting them to push the Brentford fullbacks back. This led to a tenseness in the ground as we as fans could see what was coming and it is worrying that RDM, as the man with the most control, couldn’t. It seems that his failure to shut up shop for the final 15 minutes against Forest led to him trying to shut up shop for 45 minutes against Brentford.

Against Ipswich he got it all wrong and we set up way too defensively and created next to nothing. He has gone from gung ho to ultra defensive in a matter of three games which is worrying. The squad he has assembled is attack heavy so to get the best out of it for me you have to start games attack minded and then manage it as each game evolves.

RDM has assembled a good squad for this level. Whether he is capable of getting anything like the best out of it remains to be seen.

Edited September 20, 2016 by markavfc40

[TrentVilla]

15 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Totally agree with all of the above.

I think his in game management has been poor which has now led to him starting games in the wrong manner. Against Forest we got everything pretty much spot on up until the time we took the lead. At that stage we had one natural centre midfielder on the pitch. You therefore as a manager either instruct the team to keep pushing for a third and kill the game off or you make a change, bring on another midfielder and try to hold what you have. We did neither. Against Brentford we were poor after we scored and I felt half time came at a good time for us. We then though tried to play 45 mins holding onto our lead, sat deep and allowed Brentford to come onto us with Kodija and Amavi having a starting position in our own half instead and getting them to push the Brentford fullbacks back. This led to a tenseness in the ground as we as fans could see what was coming and it is worrying that RDM, as the man with the most control, couldn’t. It seems that his failure to shut up shop for the final 15 minutes against Forest led to him trying to shut up shop for 45 minutes against Brentford.

Against Ipswich he got it all wrong and we set up way too defensively and created next to nothing. He has gone from gung ho to ultra defensive in a matter of three games which is worrying. The squad he has assembled is attack heavy so to get the best out of it for me you have to start games attack minded and then manage it as each game evolves.

RDM has assembled a good squad for this level. Whether he is capable of getting anything like the best out of it remains to be seen.

Completely agree. 

[omariqy]

You would think experienced men like Clarke and Bond would have the nous to adapt tactics and game plans?

[dont_do_it_doug.]

19 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Against Forest we got everything pretty much spot on up until the time we took the lead. At that stage we had one natural centre midfielder on the pitch. You therefore as a manager either instruct the team to keep pushing for a third and kill the game off or you make a change, bring on another midfielder and try to hold what you have. We did neither. 

I disagree with this part Mark. We were pushing for the third and came very close to scoring it. It was the right decision IMO and I am retrospectively fine with it. Up until that very moment, I was pleased with his performance as manager. 

Against Brentford I thought there was more to it than a tactical reason for receding in the second half. I thought we played some decent enough stuff for the first 35 minutes or so then inexplicably it looked like their collective legs went. There was a moment towards the end where Jordan Ayew had a sprint into the box and a customary shot over the bar, and he literally couldn't run back to help defend the counter. He got pelters for it which I found very harsh. He wasn't alone and at that point I had to wonder what the hell is going on in training? Is the gung-ho approach taking it too much of them? Would make sense of the injuries. 

The fittest player on the pitch was Kodjia, who had only been involved in our training for a week.

With that in mind a shut up shop performance against Ipswich was perhaps essential. At least we got the clean sheet and in isolation there's nothing wrong with the result. However we HAVE to start getting better results, I think everybody knows this. He's living on the edge but it's our edge too, so let's hope he can pull us back from it. 

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

The players he signed are good players, but particularly in the case of the forwards he doesn't seem to know how he wants to use them. It seems like Di Matteo's strategy this summer was buy as many of the top scorers as he could without really having a structure in mind how they were going to fit into the side. So far at various times we've seen him pretty much just throw them all in the mix and hope something comes off, that has been at the expense of a midfield with sufficient strength or even numbers at times and its cost us points including from a winning position against Forest.

So far its not been too different to Keegan ala mid 90's only without the goals.

Out of interest, what would your starting 11 be?

[PaulC]

20 hours ago, bobzy said:

I didn't say Rowett has been lucky as a manager - he's worked incredibly well at Blues and turned them into a solid team.  But to say he's the man for us because they scraped a win against Sheff Wed whereas we lost after an error?  Yeah, OK!

However, drifting slightly off topic, it's an entirely different type of job and, apparently, demand.  Blues are hard to break down and then counter - that's what Rowett has done well and it's what he did well at Burton.  He plays on the fact that his sides will be viewed as "underdogs" and makes them solid and functional.  Nothing spectacular, no flair at all and no emphasis on ball retention.  Just soak up pressure and then hit the opposition quickly.  Blues have the lowest average possession in the Championship, but have had the 9th most amount of shots.  That's how Burton worked under Rowett, that's how Blues work under him too.  One of my Bluenose mates doesn't enjoy it and says every game will be 0-0.  Similar to Pulis at West Brom, I guess.

Considering people on here are berating Di Matteo for being too defensive, I shudder to think what the view would be if Gary Rowett was here.

Yes but luck does play a large part in football as well and when you get luck going your way it feeds positive energy into the players and the reverse is true and I think thats whats happening to us. We need a bit of luck to kick start our season. 

[Grasshopper]

15 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Yes but luck does play a large part in football as well and when you get luck going your way it feeds positive energy into the players and the reverse is true and I think thats whats happening to us. We need a bit of luck to kick start our season. 

OK

Edited September 20, 2016 by Grasshopper

[markavfc40]

30 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Against Brentford I thought there was more to it than a tactical reason for receding in the second half. I thought we played some decent enough stuff for the first 35 minutes or so then inexplicably it looked like their collective legs went. There was a moment towards the end where Jordan Ayew had a sprint into the box and a customary shot over the bar, and he literally couldn't run back to help defend the counter. He got pelters for it which I found very harsh. He wasn't alone and at that point I had to wonder what the hell is going on in training? Is the gung-ho approach taking it too much of them? Would make sense of the injuries. 

The fittest player on the pitch was Kodjia, who had only been involved in our training for a week.

With that in mind a shut up shop performance against Ipswich was perhaps essential. At least we got the clean sheet and in isolation there's nothing wrong with the result. However we HAVE to start getting better results, I think everybody knows this. He's living on the edge but it's our edge too, so let's hope he can pull us back from it. 

I disagree that it was down to fitness against Brentford. We started the second half on the back foot. As you say Kodija looked the fittest player on the pitch, Amavi came on at half time and both played wide midfield. Both their starting position were in our own half so instead of pushing the opposing fullbacks back we allowed them to come onto us. That comes from a tactical decision by the manager and not fitness. You know what though if that squad isn’t as fit as Brentfords then the fault for that has to also lie with the manager.

As for shutting up shop against Ipswich I don’t think you get the best out of this squad by starting games shutting up shop playing for a draw. The squad RDM has assembled is attack heavy so my advice to him would be to simply play to the strengths of the squad you have assembled and he didn’t do that for much of the Brentford game and all of the Ipswich game which is a worry.

Bottom line is that to have any hope of being in the mix for promotion we have to win games and we have won one in eight. Performances like the last two won’t see that improve and for me after a promising start, in terms of performances, we have gone backwards and I can totally understand why some supporters, especially those who didn’t think he was the right man in the first place, are starting to have doubts. Huge couple of weeks coming up for him and more importantly us.

Edited September 20, 2016 by markavfc40

[Villarocker]

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

0-2 it'll get ugly

0-3/4/5  big trouble

You just cannot beat a bit of good old positivity

[TrentVilla]

 

13 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I disagree that it was down to fitness against Brentford. We started the second half on the back foot. As you say Kodija looked the fittest player on the pitch, Amavi came on at half time and both played wide midfield. Both their starting position were in our own half so instead of pushing the opposing fullbacks back we allowed them to come onto us. That comes from a tactical decision by the manager and not fitness. You know what though if that squad isn’t as fit as Brentfords then the fault for that has to also lie with the manager.

As for shutting up shop against Ipswich I don’t think you get the best out of this squad by starting games shutting up shop playing for a draw. The squad RDM has assembled is attack heavy so my advice to him would be to simply play to the strengths of the squad you have assembled and he didn’t do that for much of the Brentford game and all of the Ipswich game which is a worry.

Bottom line is that to have any hope of being in the mix for promotion we have to win games and we have won one in eight. Performances like the last two won’t see that improve and for me after a promising start, in terms of performances, we have gone backwards and I can totally understand why some supporters, especially those who didn’t think he was the right man in the first place, are starting to have doubts. Huge couple of weeks coming up for him and more importantly us.

Spot on. I would though add we pretty much went on the back foot immediately after the goal, prior to that it was all us.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

15 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

You know what though if that squad isn’t as fit as Brentfords then the fault for that has to also lie with the manager.

 

Absolutely. 

I stand by it wholeheartedly, they were visibly **** by 35. Either way the manager is at fault.