Popular Post Deisler123 Posted July 31, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2017 On 7/22/2017 at 12:43, TrentVilla said: When you see a stadium in China full of Chinese football fans wearing Chelsea and Arsenal shirts it makes you realise just how unrealistic the Dr's ambitions for Villa in China are. There is a distinct difference between UK and China, in terms of how people start to support their club at the first place . Say, if you ask 10 Chinese fans who were sitting in that stadium why they support Chelsea or Arsenal, I am 100% sure that none of them will say: I support them because my dad took me to watch their games at Stanford Bridge when I was 8. Instead, 99% chance you will hear : 'I first started to watch them because they were playing in the Champions league' or 'I watched their first match at the Uni because my friends followed them', or even 'my girlfriend really likes Fernando Torres so I had to watch Chelsea games (in my case, Maldini and AC Milan, and I followed Milan for 15 years already...)' Because there are only 32 clubs in the top two divisions in China and most of them are in big cities, 90% of football fans in China do not have a local club to support. They (including myself) normally choose a Chinese club and an European club to follow and (most of) them are quite loyal to their choices. It is impossible to follow any club if people cannot watch their games, so you are definitely right if Villa stay in Championships. Having a Chinese owner is not really a strong reason for people to follow, but having 1-2 Chinese players (who are good enough to play in the premier league) are. And if they can play in the Europa/Champions league? You could expect tens of millions of people watching. In 2006-2007, A Chinese Player, who played for PSV Eindhoven, played 4 games in the Champions League. One of the match was broadcast live in China. It was later estimated that over 25 millions people watched it on TV. Imagine what could happen to Villa's potential sponsorship contracts and merchandise sales, if every Villa's match is live in China with millions of fans watching. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) Top post Deisler. We have a hell of a long way to go but it is achievable despite what the naysayers say. Edited July 31, 2017 by Mjvilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Deisler123 Posted July 31, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mjvilla said: Top post Deisler. We have a hell of a long way to go but it is achievable despite what the naysayers say. I hope this season we can get promoted. If we cannot even make to the play-offs, then I am afraid the momentum (of having a new owner who likes to invest but expect some success in 3-5 years) may be lost. Sometimes people are just reluctant to be optimistic, because their hopes have been crashed before. But this forum is, generally speaking, very positive, that is why I like here . 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Deisler123 said: I hope this season we can get promoted. If we cannot even make to the play-offs, then I am afraid the momentum (of having a new owner who likes to invest but expect some success in 3-5 years) may be lost. Sometimes people are just reluctant to be optimistic, because their hopes have been crashed before. But this forum is, generally speaking, very positive, that is why I like here . I think we are all acutely aware of the financial importance of getting promoted this year. None more so than those at the club I'm sure. I think/hope a few people are just having a little pre - season wobble and like you say I think the recent history has a pretty big part to play in that. But we are all on the same team, we all want what's best for AVFC. And I think we are all feeling a bit of that financial stress even though it's not our domain. I personally have high hopes for the season. Whether it's enough to earn promotion we'll see. I agree making the playoffs should be a bare minimum expectation even though we have to accept it's such a lottery. But I think it's fair to say this year it is a realistic expectation whereas last year I always thought it was a bit hopeful. Some shrewd additions make us look much better prepared for the rigours of the Championship imo. Whatever happens though I'm convinced we've 'turned the corner' and we've all got reason to be cheerful if that is the case. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 31, 2017 Moderator Share Posted July 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Deisler123 said: There is a distinct difference between UK and China, in terms of how people start to support their club at the first place . Say, if you ask 10 Chinese fans who were sitting in that stadium why they support Chelsea or Arsenal, I am 100% sure that none of them will say: I support them because my dad took me to watch their games at Stanford Bridge when I was 8. Instead, 99% chance you will hear : 'I first started to watch them because they were playing in the Champions league' or 'I watched their first match at the Uni because my friends followed them', or even 'my girlfriend really likes Fernando Torres so I had to watch Chelsea games (in my case, Maldini and AC Milan, and I followed Milan for 15 years already...)' Because there are only 32 clubs in the top two divisions in China and most of them are in big cities, 90% of football fans in China do not have a local club to support. They (including myself) normally choose a Chinese club and an European club to follow and (most of) them are quite loyal to their choices. It is impossible to follow any club if people cannot watch their games, so you are definitely right if Villa stay in Championships. Having a Chinese owner is not really a strong reason for people to follow, but having 1-2 Chinese players (who are good enough to play in the premier league) are. And if they can play in the Europa/Champions league? You could expect tens of millions of people watching. In 2006-2007, A Chinese Player, who played for PSV Eindhoven, played 4 games in the Champions League. One of the match was broadcast live in China. It was later estimated that over 25 millions people watched it on TV. Imagine what could happen to Villa's potential sponsorship contracts and merchandise sales, if every Villa's match is live in China with millions of fans watching. You obviously have a far better insight than I do into the domestic situation in China but the difference between how fans start to support their clubs is hardly new or surprising. We've seen it for decades already in other parts of Europe, we even see it domestically in the UK. Fans without a 'home' side or family influences will make a selection of the team they support, they almost always choose the successful ones. This is why you find loads of Liverpool fans of a certain age in Norway, the younger ones support more recently success heavy clubs. That does change in time though, some will become entrenched in their support of a club and some will pass it to their son's just as a local fan would do. That might take a long time to happen, but it will happen for some although obviously not all. But in the here and now, we are a Championship club so even by your own admission not on the radar for most in China, irrespective of our owner or the off the field work we do. Even for those who are aware, we wouldn't be likely to be the side they pick. I completely agree that having a couple of successful Chinese players in our squad would make a monumental difference. If and when that happens I will look on with interest. In the meantime, you seem to agree with me that the only way to build meaningful support in China is winning trophies and being in the CL. In order to do that we would need to dislodge one of the current clubs in that group. I'm afraid I just don't see that happening, I therefore don't see the Dr being successful in his aims for Villa in China and I think the more these clubs establish their brands in China each year the harder it will get. If people think that negative, so be it, I just think that is realistic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 11 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: If people think that negative, so be it, I just think that is realistic. I don’t think it is negative mate and I think it is realistic what you say. However there is no harm in being optimistic and if you reach for the stars you may just get to the moon. Before Xia arrived we spent pretty much half a dozen years under an owner who wasn’t even reaching for the sky. I find it really refreshing that we now have an owner with huge plans and ambitions for us. I think being a football fan is all about dreaming really isn’t it certainly for fans of most clubs. I go into every season before a ball has been kicked optimistic about what will happen. What is the point otherwise. Reality then usually kicks in but at least for a while I felt the buzz that relative success was possible. I am extremely optimistic about this season and think it will be the first big step in Xia maybe achieving his ultimate aims for us. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Deisler123 Posted July 31, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2017 56 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: You obviously have a far better insight than I do into the domestic situation in China but the difference between how fans start to support their clubs is hardly new or surprising. We've seen it for decades already in other parts of Europe, we even see it domestically in the UK. Fans without a 'home' side or family influences will make a selection of the team they support, they almost always choose the successful ones. This is why you find loads of Liverpool fans of a certain age in Norway, the younger ones support more recently success heavy clubs. That does change in time though, some will become entrenched in their support of a club and some will pass it to their son's just as a local fan would do. That might take a long time to happen, but it will happen for some although obviously not all. But in the here and now, we are a Championship club so even by your own admission not on the radar for most in China, irrespective of our owner or the off the field work we do. Even for those who are aware, we wouldn't be likely to be the side they pick. I completely agree that having a couple of successful Chinese players in our squad would make a monumental difference. If and when that happens I will look on with interest. In the meantime, you seem to agree with me that the only way to build meaningful support in China is winning trophies and being in the CL. In order to do that we would need to dislodge one of the current clubs in that group. I'm afraid I just don't see that happening, I therefore don't see the Dr being successful in his aims for Villa in China and I think the more these clubs establish their brands in China each year the harder it will get. If people think that negative, so be it, I just think that is realistic. We seem to agree on almost every points raised. There isn't that much that we disagree on really. It is just either being 'realistic' or being 'hopeful or optimistic'. And honestly there isn't much difference between the two. As long as there is even 1% chance of making that happen, people should fight for it. Club like Villa needs an ambitious owner and an even more ambitious plan. Otherwise the history of glory is just a history. Some may find the the owner and the plan a bit too 'unrealistic'. But, my reading was that the 'ambition' is really a strong message from the new owner when he took over. He wanted to tell everyone (especially the club staff/players and the fans) that he wants to the bring changes to the club and he is determined to do that. I wouldn't really take Dr's ambition (i.e. to win Premier League title in 3-5 years time) too literally, but I still remain hopeful that Villa can play European football in 5 years. We'll see. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I guess the point is, if the limit of our ambition is finishing 8th in the Premier League and then selling any half-decent players to top sides, then really, why bother 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 22 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I guess the point is, if the limit of our ambition is finishing 8th in the Premier League and then selling any half-decent players to top sides, then really, why bother Even if we ever get back in the prem, with all this FFP stuff it means that 8th is probably the best we can hope for anyway. Theres no way we could compete with the big clubs incomes. The Doc could have taken the Man City method of sponsoring but has chosen not to go down that path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: I guess the point is, if the limit of our ambition is finishing 8th in the Premier League and then selling any half-decent players to top sides, then really, why bother There are actually higher levels of this same method though, Southampton, Everton, Tottenham are doing this quite effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I think if we don't get promoted next season the Doc could even want out. Things change quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: There are actually higher levels of this same method though, Southampton, Everton, Tottenham are doing this quite effectively. Tottenham are different to the other two, especially Southampton. Yes they'll sell a Bale. But I'm afraid you can't stop Real Madrid on the charge. If they were to sell Kane or Alli in the current environment, I honestly think they'd be getting something beyond comprehension like £175m. If they can sort out their Wembley form, they are definitely making a run at the title this year. Selling Walker to City was a bad message, but he is limited. If we get to that level... I'll take it I suppose. Edited August 2, 2017 by Tomaszk 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 On 02/08/2017 at 02:53, Tomaszk said: Tottenham are different to the other two, especially Southampton. Yes they'll sell a Bale. But I'm afraid you can't stop Real Madrid on the charge. If they were to sell Kane or Alli in the current environment, I honestly think they'd be getting something beyond comprehension like £175m. If they can sort out their Wembley form, they are definitely making a run at the title this year. Selling Walker to City was a bad message, but he is limited. If we get to that level... I'll take it I suppose. We where at at level at one time. Scary to think it will be around 9 years ago this season. I think it would be fair to say if we had that squad then this season in their peak we could have demanded close to 100m for A Young and prob the same fee for James Milner too. It feels like a long time ago now but I feel it could be done again, but only once we are out of this league and have the correct type of manager in place to do this. We will get there eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 16 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: We where at at level at one time. Scary to think it will be around 9 years ago this season. I think it would be fair to say if we had that squad then this season in their peak we could have demanded close to 100m for A Young and prob the same fee for James Milner too. It feels like a long time ago now but I feel it could be done again, but only once we are out of this league and have the correct type of manager in place to do this. We will get there eventually. Yeah, it's weird. Young was one of the most effective players in the league in that side. You're right with the price as well. £30m for Barkley who has done nothing for 2 years. £50m and up for Young easy. Money has changed it a lot, not convinced we'll be back to that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: Money has changed it a lot, not convinced we'll be back to that level. We can be, but it will take time and we are at the beginning of this building process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted August 3, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted August 3, 2017 On 02/08/2017 at 02:04, Junxs said: Even if we ever get back in the prem, with all this FFP stuff it means that 8th is probably the best we can hope for anyway. Theres no way we could compete with the big clubs incomes. The Doc could have taken the Man City method of sponsoring but has chosen not to go down that path. Yet.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted August 3, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted August 3, 2017 What a man! I bet he's just as excited as us for Saturday!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 has his shirt got detachable arms or something? A Long-sleeved, short-sleeve shirt is a new one on me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tismyk Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 2 hours ago, LakotaDakota said: has his shirt got detachable arms or something? A Long-sleeved, short-sleeve shirt is a new one on me Its his owners armband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 3 hours ago, villan-scott said: What a man! I bet he's just as excited as us for Saturday!! His security detail there in the background from the Superdry Air Corps seems a bit on the young side. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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