The Rémi Garde thread

[1974Centenary]

I see it this way....we get relegated,their will not be any funds for Garde to rebuild,we go into the new season with the same players unless someone wanted to buy one(lol).we continue the status quo with the manager.Same results as this season.Garde is not going to get the chance to show what he can do with "his" players.Another manager is the only option.

[foreveryoung]

These players i.e Gabby, Lescott, Richards would not take forceful orders from the likes of Pearson. We had Keane here remember and had a player revolt as soon as he tried to install some discipline within the squad.

Why can people not see, its much bigger problem than the manager. Since Lerner has been here for example, the board have never been involved enough in player motivation, like other clubs.

Understand, the club, as said many times before, is rotten from the board down. You try working for a company with the same ethos, you won't be arsed, especially if you salary is guaranteed every week how ever you perform.

As for Pulis, he might not be the best manager in the premiership, but he has vast experience, an with that he can see whats going on here, so a reason he would never come.

[HAL]

noone is going to come here next season unless some serious funds are available we have far to many players with a bad attitude and need shifting

[HeyAnty]

33 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Having listened to Danny Murphy on Talk Shite it is pathetic how much players just stop listening the manager and wait for them to be sacked. As others say it is easier to pay off the manager than get rid of several players.Personally I'd rather get rid of the bad apples and see what Garde could do in a better situation with a new owner- but that is probably not going to happen.

Spot on.  Garde is the cheaper option to get rid of.  Lerner isnt going to get rid of 10 rubbish players because there would be no takers unless they are paid off.

[Grasshopper]

Lerner isnt selling anytime soon

Hollis/King maybe who we need to bite the bullet for running organising and making decisions till a new set up is in place.

Remi could be the man for our future IF, he is allowed to decide on his support staff and players.

The problems of RL, investment and appointments can be dealt with as and when, but Manager, staff & player problems need to be dealt with immediately.

I think RG deserves a chance to have a free reign with who comes in and out.

however, I fear he maybe already broken.

Whoever is manager needs to be able to get rid of the bad apples, the most poisonous ones first, and go down the list - very bad, bad, not so bad....etc - untill the poison has eroded.

Then maybe we still have some players left for a skeleton squad, promote youngsters/loanee's return then see who we can get in.

The poison is effecting 4 levels of the club

1) owner - untill he sells

2) board senior staff - Hollis & King may be able to weed this out

3) Manager & staff - RG and his choices is one option. New management team another option

4) players - get rid of the bad apples

2 & 3 are the easier tasks

1 could be irrelevent with 2 performing to an effective level

4 needs the most work and we need a good manager to orchestrate that one

Otherwise we are done till Lerner sells.

[mykeyb]

If Garde stays next season and we cannot shift Gabby, Bacuna, Richards, Lescott, Hutton and Bunn how is Garde going to get performances out of them when he cannot now?

[onmeedson]

Think these players revolting days are over, no one wants them

[VillanousOne]

Despite how awful they all are players never lose, they'll all get cushy contracts somewhere or another.

Guzan - could go back to the MLS but I imagine he'll stay

Bunn - cost nothing, is probably on low wags and could easily get a contract somewhere else or paid off

Okore - didn't cost a huge amount and whatever you feel about him I think we will make back more than we paid on him.

Lescott - Will probably head to the MLS - or we get stuck with him for another year

Richards - if there is genuine interest some idiot will buy him

Clark - Probably stuck with him and Baker, who knows they maybe ok at Championship level

Bacuna - apparently cost less than a million, I can see him staying but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets sold abroad

Kozak - my feeling is his contract will be paid off or he'll go for free to somewhere abroad

Gabby - again we are stuck with the waste of space, he could get a random loan to a promoted club but i chuffing doubt it

Ayew - We'll get most of our money back if not all as he is still young, probably ended up at a promoted club

Vertout - He might go on loan back to France or stay another year, we won't get 9mil for him*

*Gana - same as above really, although he did have a good reputation in France so we could sell at a loss

Westwood - can't see anyone buying him

Sanchez - will get a random move abroad on a free

Richardson - not sure how long he has left, but doubt anyone else will want him

Hutton - will probably stay sadly

Cissokho - if Garde goes I think he will go for a nominal fee abroad

Amavi - hopefully he returns to full fitness and stays another year with us

Grealish - a new manager will hopefully try and build something with him but he could easily be sold as there will be suitors

Traore - if he gets fit again he might leave, but I imagine he will stay until Jan and then maybe get a loan somewhere as most would not pay the transfer fee or wages involved

Gil - will probably leave for peanuts for Spain or Italy

Gestede - imagine he will stay as he'll be at his level

Gardener - if he doesn't get a role now he never will, same for Bennett

The bottom line is 80% of our squad could move on with surprising ease.

 

[Grasshopper]

16 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

Despite how awful they all are players never lose, they'll all get cushy contracts somewhere or another.

Guzan - could go back to the MLS but I imagine he'll stay

- Needs to go

Bunn - cost nothing, is probably on low wags and could easily get a contract somewhere else or paid off

-back up

Okore - didn't cost a huge amount and whatever you feel about him I think we will make back more than we paid on him.

- keep

Lescott - Will probably head to the MLS - or we get stuck with him for another year

-get rid

Richards - if there is genuine interest some idiot will buy him

- get rid

Clark - Probably stuck with him and Baker, who knows they maybe ok at Championship level

- ok for Championship

Bacuna - apparently cost less than a million, I can see him staying but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets sold abroad

-keep

Kozak - my feeling is his contract will be paid off or he'll go for free to somewhere abroad

- AVFC broke him , sorry but bye

Gabby - again we are stuck with the waste of space, he could get a random loan to a promoted club but i chuffing doubt it

- Cancer/Poison

Ayew - We'll get most of our money back if not all as he is still young, probably ended up at a promoted club

- Keep

Vertout - He might go on loan back to France or stay another year, we won't get 9mil for him*

- Keep

*Gana - same as above really, although he did have a good reputation in France so we could sell at a loss

- Keep

Westwood - can't see anyone buying him

- Ch level so keep

Sanchez - will get a random move abroad on a free

- ch level so keep

Richardson - not sure how long he has left, but doubt anyone else will want him

- get rid

Hutton - will probably stay sadly

- ch level

Cissokho - if Garde goes I think he will go for a nominal fee abroad

- keep

Amavi - hopefully he returns to full fitness and stays another year with us

- keep

Grealish - a new manager will hopefully try and build something with him but he could easily be sold as there will be suitors

-keep

Traore - if he gets fit again he might leave, but I imagine he will stay until Jan and then maybe get a loan somewhere as most would not pay the transfer fee or wages involved

-keep

Gil - will probably leave for peanuts for Spain or Italy

- keep

Gestede - imagine he will stay as he'll be at his level

- ch level

Gardener - if he doesn't get a role now he never will, same for Bennett

- keep both

The bottom line is 80% of our squad could move on with surprising ease.

 

If Gaby, Lescott, Richards & N'Zog all go, I will have some hope that we can have a team spirit

Any still here and we're Ph**ked

[AvfcRigo82]

4 hours ago, Xela said:

Garde looks broken, I just can't see him staying and to be honest, it doesn't bother me one bit. He can't get anything out of the players, the majority of which we will probably be lumbered with next year. 

He's making questionable decisions and throwing his players under the bus, which the previous manager was slaughtered for. 

As I've said before I don't blame him for relegation, I do blame him for not being strong enough to get the players to look as though they are even bothered. I'd be fairly confident Pulis, Allardyce or even Pearson would have got more out of them. We need that type of character, an arsehole, to get these players by the scruff of the necks and sort them out.

On that basis then it is this man that we need in charge.

Souness offers to fight Bowyer & Dyer after infamous clash!

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2016 by AvfcRigo82

[dont_do_it_doug.]

3 hours ago, mykeyb said:

Not saying that at all as I stated we don't know how much he was backed and I too would use the word inept. 

We still see even on this page posters saying he wasn't backed, and factually that is incorrect.

Define "backed"? 

We pulled out of a deal for Khazri because we wouldn't pay the fee/wages. I would suggest that is him not being backed. I would suggest that is the factually correct description for it. 

Either way, they hardly went balls out to back their man. Not only are they inept, but they are piss weak. Pathetic owner, incompetent board, just **** farcical all round. 

[terrytini]

2 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

These players i.e Gabby, Lescott, Richards would not take forceful orders from the likes of Pearson. We had Keane here remember and had a player revolt as soon as he tried to install some discipline within the squad.

Why can people not see, its much bigger problem than the manager. Since Lerner has been here for example, the board have never been involved enough in player motivation, like other clubs.

Understand, the club, as said many times before, is rotten from the board down. You try working for a company with the same ethos, you won't be arsed, especially if you salary is guaranteed every week how ever you perform.

As for Pulis, he might not be the best manager in the premiership, but he has vast experience, an with that he can see whats going on here, so a reason he would never come.

I think people can all see that, but the fact that other things are poor does not remove all relevance of the Managers performance.

The trouble is, and it is getting said over and over, that there is no guarantee at all that Lerner will go, or change.

Therefore it is essential that areas elsewhere are looked at.  It was the case for Mcleish, Lambert, and Sherwood, all of whom (without checking) I think had marginally better records than Garde.  Certainly Garde has done little in terms of performances or results that the others didn't do at some point.

You can't keep a failing Manager just because the whole place is failing.  If he lost the first 5 games next season, would you still say, "Its Lerner that's the problem " ?  The first 10 ?  The first 20 ?  Surely there would be a point at which you would have to say that despite all the extenuating circumstances you have highlighted, you feel he should go ?

Well, its just that some (not myself, not quite yet, but nearly) are at that point now, and with good reason.

Without putting words in your mouth this is the point at which some say "Ah, but he deserves a chance with his own players "......utterly fraught - firstly, how many will stay, how many of his own will he get ? Secondly, how does he then deal with the ones he can't now ? Thirdly, if he needs ALL his own players, is he any good ? Cant he find and motivate 8 ? 9 ? It currently appears not.  Fourthly, surely he only 'deserves' (not something I'm comfortable with, we are not a charity) backing to the extent his achievements merit it - and they are few indeed.

As for Keane, just because he failed  - if indeed that was the issue - doesn't mean it is impossible.  As for Pulis, or other 'wont comes', there will be plenty who see a good salary and a win/win opportunity.

 

[bose]

12 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Without putting words in your mouth this is the point at which some say "Ah, but he deserves a chance with his own players "......utterly fraught - firstly, how many will stay, how many of his own will he get ? Secondly, how does he then deal with the ones he can't now ? Thirdly, if he needs ALL his own players, is he any good ? Cant he find and motivate 8 ? 9 ? It currently appears not.  Fourthly, surely he only 'deserves' (not something I'm comfortable with, we are not a charity) backing to the extent his achievements merit it - and they are few indeed.

Beg to differ.

[terrytini]

4 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

My bad then, I thought you were talking about managers gaining respect because of the fear they instilled from ruthless actions or outbursts.  But if we need to hire a manager with respect in the sense of multiple championships, then Fergy and Wenger, and maybe Maurinho might be it.  Which of them do you suggest?  

If I was conflating your opinion with one more similar to this posted above "We need that type of character, an arsehole, to get these players by the scruff of the necks and sort them out. "  I do apologize.  I just don't think that style of "management" works in today's world.  It wouldn't make me do better at my job... it would make me sit down, quit, and consult a solicitor, if not the police.

Please understand, I am completely frustrated that Garde has been unable to stir any passion or desire in the players... but I don't know what would work.  A bomb squad under Lambert didn't scare anybody into playing with passion.  The "good buddy" approach of Sherwood didn't do it.  The "beat them into submission" approach would just end in court. Clearly the "cerebral, organize first" approach hasn't worked in the long term.  (It may have been making modest improvement till the transfer window showed the club had given up.)   If you bench all that don't try or make stupid mistakes you have nobody on the roster.  I'm out of options other than playing the kids, but I think we can all see that there is a significant long-term risk to that attempt as well.  Personally, my guess is that Garde will start playing 3-6 from the youth every match once we are mathematically down.  Especially against weaker opposition.

This is in my view an erroneous argument, a 'false narrative' if you will, and it is being said increasingly, which is unfortunate.

You are conflating 4 seasons ,three Managers, and who knows how many different players that were here at different times, and treating it as one mass.  The approach Lambert used was not used on Sinclair, Gil, Lescott, Richards, etc, because they weren't here, or only briefly.  The Sherwood approach wasn't used on Dunne, Collins, El Ahmadi, Bennet, etc, for the same reason.  We do not have one bunch of lazy, useless, demotivated players, who need either approach A, B, or C, and who have fought off all attempts to get them to play.  We have one useless, demotivated owner, who has allowed his character to pervade all aspects of the Club, as owners often do.  He is the only real constant (other than Gabby, Guzan, Hutton maybe) from the beginning of the end under Houllier.

If one accepts that, then it creates at least a tiny ray of hope, in that it could be possible to divorce the attitudes on the playing side from the owner , and the attitudes of the genuinely disruptive or unresponsive players from each other. That could happen to some degree (particularly the first part ) at Board level, if any of them have the nouse or brief to distance themselves from Lerners approach, but more importantly it could happen at Manager level.  It could still be possible to find a Manager who can, by virtue of his personality, or approach, or both, or both plus luck, succeed in  weeding out the genuinely cancerous players, of which there may be few, and then apply VARIOUS methods for different remaining players.  If he can get the players mentally detached from the culture of the Club and create his own, that would address the other problem.

There are Managers who can do that.  We maybe haven't had that type for a while, but they exist.  I hope so.............. 

[terrytini]

nope

Edited March 8, 2016 by terrytini

[Zatman]

4 hours ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

I think the more we observe the inept performances, the more it becomes obvious we need to have faith in a manager that realises that the current crop are an embarassement to the professional game.If we replace RG, the next bloke will come in and give Gabby/Westwood/Sinclair/Richards/Lescott et al, another chance, and in 6/12 month time we will be in exactly the same position as we are now.

Keep RG, and give him the tools.

will a new manager keep them? Kenny Jackett went into Wolves and 1st thing he did was throw all his expensive duds into a bomb squad and think only Doyle and Ward actually got game time out of about 8 players

[AJ]

As the rot continues, we may never really know if he is a good manager or not. His Ligue 1 credentials were quite good, and to accept the task of getting Villa out of relegation spoke a lot for his confidence in his ability. However,  after being screwed by Lerner and co, and being given such a piss poor roster full of bad attitudes, Remi was always going to be pushing s*** uphill. Being stuck in the middle between crap club management and players who don't deserve to play, to say he is being shafted is an understatement. Since he is copping it from both ends, he is a piggy on a spit.

[JamieZ]

7 hours ago, HAL said:

noone is going to come here next season unless some serious funds are available we have far to many players with a bad attitude and need shifting

I, for one, would welcome a player of Craig Noone's calibre.

[ozvillafan]

Ange Postecoglou manages the Aussie national side and delivered them their first ever Asian Cup in 2015.

Before that he briefly managed (arguably) the biggest club down here (Melbourne Victory) before taking on the national side.

Before that he managed Brisbane Roar and had them not only winning the A-League premiership/championship but setting records for unbeaten runs along the way.

Now it wasn't all roses for Ange. When he started at Brisbane Roar part way through a horrid season heading for the wooden spoon he met BIG resistance to his methods/style and training. Players complained long and loud, even to the press. Some of the experienced players even left of their own accord and Brisbane Roar finished second last in his first season (no relegation down here).

Sound familiar?

So how did he turn it around? Did he do something different? Did he change what he was trying to do with the squad he had?

Nope. The club backed him to root out the trouble-makers and replace them (usually with lesser quality / low experience / inexpensive players) so he could get them all pulling in the same direction. The rest is history.

Now that's a lovely story and has little to no bearing on Remi Garde and Aston Villa apart from 2 points:

• You can't judge a manager on "half" a season in a struggling side
• You must be prepared to back your manager's judgement - else what's the point?

Remi has already been stiffed once in January. If the same is done over the summer, he has to walk cause he'll get nowhere with this squad next year.

[mwj]

I think people can all see that, but the fact that other things are poor does not remove all relevance of the Managers performance.

The trouble is, and it is getting said over and over, that there is no guarantee at all that Lerner will go, or change.

Therefore it is essential that areas elsewhere are looked at.  It was the case for Mcleish, Lambert, and Sherwood, all of whom (without checking) I think had marginally better records than Garde.  Certainly Garde has done little in terms of performances or results that the others didn't do at some point.

You can't keep a failing Manager just because the whole place is failing.  If he lost the first 5 games next season, would you still say, "Its Lerner that's the problem " ?  The first 10 ?  The first 20 ?  Surely there would be a point at which you would have to say that despite all the extenuating circumstances you have highlighted, you feel he should go ?

Well, its just that some (not myself, not quite yet, but nearly) are at that point now, and with good reason.

Without putting words in your mouth this is the point at which some say "Ah, but he deserves a chance with his own players "......utterly fraught - firstly, how many will stay, how many of his own will he get ? Secondly, how does he then deal with the ones he can't now ? Thirdly, if he needs ALL his own players, is he any good ? Cant he find and motivate 8 ? 9 ? It currently appears not.  Fourthly, surely he only 'deserves' (not something I'm comfortable with, we are not a charity) backing to the extent his achievements merit it - and they are few indeed.

As for Keane, just because he failed  - if indeed that was the issue - doesn't mean it is impossible.  As for Pulis, or other 'wont comes', there will be plenty who see a good salary and a win/win opportunity.

 

He doesn't need "his own players", he needs players that aren't retards.

There's a difference