ozvillafan Posted March 8, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2016 8 minutes ago, YGabbana said: So garde has mentioned lack of quality in his team. Yet picks the same useless 11 every game. Makes sense Yeah... it kinda does. Play the same useless 11? Or play ones who are worse? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 18 minutes ago, Zatman said: mm Okore, recall Baker and use them 2 and Clark for rest of season as at least them 3 will actually try. Maybe not releasing Senderos might have helped as well You know that Baker can be recalled then? You know that Senderos was fit enough to come straight in after not playing for months? The entirety of your arguments is based on assumptions, yet you present them as facts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 38 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: You know that Baker can be recalled then? You know that Senderos was fit enough to come straight in after not playing for months? The entirety of your arguments is based on assumptions, yet you present them as facts. The entirety of most arguments on this site are based on assumptions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted March 8, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2016 13 minutes ago, DCJonah said: The entirety of most arguments on this site are based on assumptions. You're only assuming that. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 26 minutes ago, DCJonah said: The entirety of most arguments on this site are based on assumptions. yes and no, many arguments are based on not assuming anything because we don't have information or at least a reliable source of it. Both are subject to being completely wrong, but I prefer to err on the side of caution. I don't think we can recall Baker anyway. Recalls have to be mutually agreed by all 3 parties if there is no clause in the contract, otherwise a recall clause is only applicable to the transfer windows. Also if a loan fee was paid you can't recall at all. Senderos was clearly not physically up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, a m ole said: yes and no, many arguments are based on not assuming anything because we don't have information or at least a reliable source of it. Both are subject to being completely wrong, but I prefer to err on the side of caution. wot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, mwj said: wot? it made sense in my head, you're just going to have to assume I know what I'm talking about! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted March 8, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2016 He needed his back room staff with him , the writing was on the wall from the moment we failed to get them. I think there is a good chance we will go back for them in the summer after we have sacked "the committee" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney_avfc Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 According to Mervyn King on 5 live today, it seems that it is up to Garde if he wants to be with us next season or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Yeah... it kinda does. Play the same useless 11? Or play ones who are worse? Play the same useless 11..concede loads of goals. Or give the youth players a chance? Seems you'd rather not see a change at all and are just happy with loseing heavily week in week out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post romavillan Posted March 8, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2016 17 minutes ago, Barney_avfc said: According to Mervyn King on 5 live today, it seems that it is up to Garde if he wants to be with us next season or not. I'd rather the club say "we will do what we can to keep him and back him in the summer to rebuild" rather than preparing to make it look like it was him who couldn't be arsed. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philthevillan Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Is there any truth about Garde spending a few days a week in France? A rumour I heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 8, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 8, 2016 23 minutes ago, romavillan said: I'd rather the club say "we will do what we can to keep him and back him in the summer to rebuild" rather than preparing to make it look like it was him who couldn't be arsed. I'd rather they said that too, but not for those reasons. I'd rather hear it because it would mean THEY sound arsed. As it is, that reads as "he can stay if he wants, we're not bothered" and if that's the attitude we're going into the post-season and next season with then it doesn't bode well. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 19 minutes ago, BOF said: I'd rather they said that too, but not for those reasons. I'd rather hear it because it would mean THEY sound arsed. As it is, that reads as "he can stay if he wants, we're not bothered" and if that's the attitude we're going into the post-season and next season with then it doesn't bode well. Yep. While it matches my own feelings the club should have a clear idea what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 8, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 8, 2016 I would love to think the club are going into next season with the confidence and expectation of "OK, so we couldn't handle last season in the Premier League but we are going to absolutely murder this league because we don't belong down here". That should be the intention, especially for a previously Premier League ever-present. My worry is they'll find it quite comfortable down there, away from all the expectation and the quality. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I get the feeling that Remi knows it is pointless being in charge whilst Randy owns the club, therefore I expect him to find an honourable looking way out as soon as he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 17 hours ago, terrytini said: This is in my view an erroneous argument, a 'false narrative' if you will, and it is being said increasingly, which is unfortunate. You are conflating 4 seasons ,three Managers, and who knows how many different players that were here at different times, and treating it as one mass. The approach Lambert used was not used on Sinclair, Gil, Lescott, Richards, etc, because they weren't here, or only briefly. The Sherwood approach wasn't used on Dunne, Collins, El Ahmadi, Bennet, etc, for the same reason. We do not have one bunch of lazy, useless, demotivated players, who need either approach A, B, or C, and who have fought off all attempts to get them to play. We have one useless, demotivated owner, who has allowed his character to pervade all aspects of the Club, as owners often do. He is the only real constant (other than Gabby, Guzan, Hutton maybe) from the beginning of the end under Houllier. If one accepts that, then it creates at least a tiny ray of hope, in that it could be possible to divorce the attitudes on the playing side from the owner , and the attitudes of the genuinely disruptive or unresponsive players from each other. That could happen to some degree (particularly the first part ) at Board level, if any of them have the nouse or brief to distance themselves from Lerners approach, but more importantly it could happen at Manager level. It could still be possible to find a Manager who can, by virtue of his personality, or approach, or both, or both plus luck, succeed in weeding out the genuinely cancerous players, of which there may be few, and then apply VARIOUS methods for different remaining players. If he can get the players mentally detached from the culture of the Club and create his own, that would address the other problem. There are Managers who can do that. We maybe haven't had that type for a while, but they exist. I hope so.............. Terrytini, really good thought, and rightly corrects some despair-driven over-generalizations on my part. Your first paragraph has me convinced that the real problem is the owner, and the organization that has been infected with the "contagion of dispassionate neglect" (I just coined that phrase and I'm quite proud of it) from the top down. It's a much better statement of what I was trying to clumsily get at. (thanks) Nothing any manager has tried for a long time has worked, that's why I'm not comfortable blaming Remi. But blaming the players is in one sense blaming a few of the cells that are infected with the contagion of neglect. So, the clear and obvious answer is a new ownership that genuinely and passionately cares about the product being created. Pride! Your second paragraph asserts the idea that the infection of neglect can be overcome by other internal means. Please allow my thoughts to wander.... I once belonged to an organization with a statement of corporate culture that said "own it". What they meant was that each employee was responsible for the results of the organization. No job was beneath or above everybody. The head of the board would often pick up trash on his way to and from meetings. His attitude became infectious. "A contagion of ownership" if you will. People did what they did with some pride in what they accomplished, but also in the organization as a whole. I was able to offer suggestions to a colleague who was under-performing because I "owned" the outcome and the problem. He gratefully accepted my input and assistance because he "owned" the outcome of the organization. On the other hand, I was once over a small group that "owned" our outcome and had great results in middle of a larger organization that was extremely dysfunctional and rapidly declining in outcomes. A small cell of health did not "wag the dog" and create an positive, passionate "ownership" of the larger entity. It became frustrating and isolating, and I left. Maybe that was my failure as a leader.... but based on the analogy of my experiences, I'm not sure the manager of a club can do that. The impact on the field will be positive, but short lived. The section (even arguably the most important section) of on the field performances will eventually slide back into the contagion of dispassionate neglect. Players will "own" the teams performance and their own, but only for a short time. The top down contagion of neglect will eventually win out. I think that's what we have seen here. Where your post does give me real hope is one I honestly had not thought of.... the board. Short of a new financial owner, it does seem possible that the board could stake an "ownership" of passion and pride, regardless of the guy with the checkbook. The could actually insulate the rest of the organization from the source of infection. Thanks for causing me to clarify my thoughts and for giving me a basis for a bit of hope. I look forward to seeing what decisions come from this full review the board is undertaking. If it's lip service our only hope is for Lerner to sell. If it's genuine. If it's fueled by pride in the fans the Aston Villa represents and pride in personal commitment and tangible contribution to greatness. There is hope. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Barney_avfc said: According to Mervyn King on 5 live today, it seems that it is up to Garde if he wants to be with us next season or not. Garde is waiting for the sack, or the Villa managerial jackpot as its also known as! I think we are going to be lumbered with a lot of the same players next season, after all, who would want them? These players clearly don't respect the manager now so they won't next season either. It is probably easier (and cheaper) for the manager to go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Is there any truth about Garde spending a few days a week in France? A rumour I heard. Where did you hear that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 2 hours ago, BOF said: I'd rather they said that too, but not for those reasons. I'd rather hear it because it would mean THEY sound arsed. As it is, that reads as "he can stay if he wants, we're not bothered" and if that's the attitude we're going into the post-season and next season with then it doesn't bode well. I read it as we would like him to stay as opposed to we can't be arsed Tbf i like that King refers to the club as "we" and has lived through the good and the bad as a fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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