tomav84 Posted March 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 28, 2023 20 minutes ago, pas5898 said: It's hardly any wonder this doesn't happen more often. Poor children. it does. a lot doesn't make the news over here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 I've come to the conclusion God doesn't like Americans. I mean so many thoughts and prayers, and it still keeps happening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted March 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, colhint said: I've come to the conclusion God doesn't like Americans. I mean so many thoughts and prayers, and it still keeps happening. Give guns to priests. Thoughts prayers and AR15s. More guns. Guns. Everyone gets guns. Arm toddlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Give guns to priests. Thoughts prayers and AR15s. More guns. Guns. Everyone gets guns. Arm toddlers. A spin off the Moonies (started by their founder's soon I think?) literally worships the AR-15, so shouldn't be long before the priests are packing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 The hand-wringing on far-right American Twitter labelling this as a terrorist attack as it was a trans person attacking a catholic school is just unreal. The other hundreds of shootings, thoughts and prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: The hand-wringing on far-right American Twitter labelling this as a terrorist attack as it was a trans person attacking a catholic school is just unreal. The other hundreds of shootings, thoughts and prayers. Going down this particular dark rabbit hole, it's actually fascinating. Usually the right say immediately after a shooting isn't the time to discuss the politics of everything gun related, whilst pro-gun control people (usually on the left) say the same things again and again. This time, the right are calling for an investigation into Trans terrorism on Christians, whilst the same pro-gun control message is still as loud as ever. Even Musk is in on it: 4 (it isn't even 4) out of thousands were by a trans person, there's a real problem there eh. No wonder his trans daughter disowned him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KentVillan Posted March 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 28, 2023 Funny how “trans terrorism” only happens in the country where you can buy automatic weapons in a supermarket 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 But tbh what is even the point in discussing this topic, it’s the exact same playbook each time with a few topical twists. A bunch of innocent people, often children, get shot. If they get stopped quickly by an armed bystander - “thank you, good guy with a gun”. If it takes a little while for good guy with a gun to do the business, then it’s “we need more good guys with guns”. If the shooter kills **** everyone including several good guys with guns, then “mental health crisis.” There’s a few different variations. Sometimes the killer is captured unharmed (if they are white), and then that means they can be live streamed in court as the devil incarnate, an unstoppable evil that required more thoughts and prayers. Of course it’s all stoppable, Australia did it. Also all these arguments about the point of no return, too many guns in America for it to work… do you really think your average teenage school shooter would be able to procure a gun on the black market? Cash incentives, amnesties and strict enforcement would massively reduce levels of gun crime, because that’s been the experience of every other country on the planet. American exceptionalism is one of the many dumbs in this whole story. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picicata Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, HKP90 said: Give guns to priests. Thoughts prayers and AR15s. More guns. Guns. Everyone gets guns. Arm toddlers. If those 9 year olds had been armed it wouldn't have happened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 This was the United States' 129th mass shooting in 2023. We're not even in April. As a means of comparison, the UK has apparently seen 28 mass shootings since 1900. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JoshVilla Posted March 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 28, 2023 I'd be interested to see the figures that show how many of these mass shooters were stopped in their tracks by a "good guy with a gun" that wasn't a Police officer. I'd imagine it's very, very low. This "we need good guys with guns" argument is absolute bollocks. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted March 28, 2023 Administrator Share Posted March 28, 2023 44 minutes ago, JoshVilla said: I'd be interested to see the figures that show how many of these mass shooters were stopped in their tracks by a "good guy with a gun" that wasn't a Police officer. I'd imagine it's very, very low. This "we need good guys with guns" argument is absolute bollocks. A significant number are stopped by themselves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted March 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, JoshVilla said: I'd be interested to see the figures that show how many of these mass shooters were stopped in their tracks by a "good guy with a gun" that wasn't a Police officer. I'd imagine it's very, very low. This "we need good guys with guns" argument is absolute bollocks. I remember seeing it in a twit a while ago. It basically broke it down to being a relatively small handful of these events that had a GGWAG in attendance. The number of those incidents where the GGWAG had a net positive effect on the situation was low single digits. I'm off to see if I can find it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 28, 2023 The GGWAG idea is fatally flawed anyway. When the police SWAT guys turn up and see anybody with a gun, they're going to shoot first and ask questions later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chindie Posted March 28, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted March 28, 2023 The good guy with a gun happens so rarely that the few times it does happen get amplified as hero stories. Meanwhile a hundred other mass shootings happen until the next 'good guy with a gun' intervenes. People like to think they're Rambo, that they're heroes, but when it comes down to it a vanishingly small number of people are able to have the wherewithal, ability and nerve to intervene in an incident like that, and even less do so with decisive action. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 minute ago, mjmooney said: The GGWAG idea is fatally flawed anyway. When the police SWAT guys turn up and see anybody with a gun, they're going to shoot first and ask questions later. It also assumes that everyone with a gun is going to be a hero. There are some that will throw themselves into the line of fire and I respect those people, but most humans are not that person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, mjmooney said: The GGWAG idea is fatally flawed anyway. When the police SWAT guys turn up and see anybody with a gun, they're going to shoot first and ask questions later. My thought was always, if you happen to somehow be the GGWAG in that scenario, and took down the shooter, and you're stood in a school corridor with the body nearby and your gun anywhere near you, you might want to hoping real hard the police team coming round the corner aren't amped up and ready to shoot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 28, 2023 You can look at various police incidents where they are having to deal with people shooting at them, even they, the pros tasked with dealing with these situations, get it wrong or **** up a lot. It's common to see them accidently jam the gun, or drop the magazine as they fire, or miss a lot, or wait out situations for hours. And they've had training, they've dealt with this kind of thing, they're used to using a gun in anger, they're used to meeting violence and threat. The average person? Nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMelvillan Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 dammit. those poor innocent wee kids I have been asking myself what I would do if I lived in America. I have an 11 year old girl and I couldnt fathom leaving her to school every day and just hoping that some nutter with unfettered access to automatic doesnt choose her school that day . I think id just bug out and leave . The country is messed up by civilised standards and there is simply no fixing it . Whilst political agendas, re-elections, paid for politics, and the gun industry as a money spinner exists, there is no end in sight for this nonsense. Breaks my heart it really does. America had the potential to be the greatest country in the world - but is ruined due to one line in an old document which has been grossly misinterpreted and is not fit for purpose in the modern world with modern weapons 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 GGWAGs often end up killing innocent people too. https://policingequity.org/resources/blog/the-fiction-of-a-good-guy-with-a-gun Quote In fact, recently gathered data show that fewer than one-third of all active shooters are actually stopped by law enforcement. Moreover, "good guys" with both guns and badges have been responsible for dozens of friendly-fire deaths of their fellow officers, and the other "good guys with guns"—security guards or bystanders—are frequently killed by police arriving on the scene. In fact, in the last seven years alone, police officers have shot and killed more than 8,000 people in this country. Public safety is about much more than a single statistic, but let's start with this one: The United States buries more than 45,000 firearm victims every year. More than half of these are deaths by suicide, more than 800 women killed by intimate partners. One million women report surviving being shot at by their partners. Each life cut short, every grieving family, every recovering survivor, and each fresh layer of communal trauma is a stark indictment of the nation's public safety systems, writ large. Calls for bigger police budgets, more officers, and yet more deadly weapons are the logical conclusion of a culture fixated on systems of violence, but in the face of such horror, we must begin to understand that true public safety is far broader, much more complex, and fundamentally different from throwing yet more armed people at problems a gun cannot solve. Consider, for example, the Denver Police Department: One Sunday morning in the summer of 2022, officers opened fire on a man they reported to be holding a gun—ultimately injuring him and five bystanders. It's one of those rare political debates where one side is just entirely, objectively wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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