Gun violence in the USA

[Davkaus]

5 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

the only way it could happen would be if the president took dictatorial powers and insisted on it.

The president can't overrule the constitution. 

[villa4europe]

8 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

The president can't overrule the constitution. 

That's what I mean, he would have to take constitutional dictatorship so that he can overrule it and that can only be done in extraordinary circumstances 

Not sure if Bush used some after 9/11, Lincoln did during the civil war and Roosevelt did during the Great depression 

Edited April 14, 2021 by villa4europe

[LondonLax]

They have created the society they want. Americans are able to remove guns from their country if they wanted to, anytime they chose to vote for it. It’s not some foreign power making them have guns so easily available. Us tut tutting from afar is pointless. 

[mykeyb]

On 13/04/2021 at 15:39, a m ole said:

Having seen the video I’m 100% sure it was a terrible mistake.

You’re right, the reason she made that mistake is obviously the training and the system she works in and that should be the big story here.

If I was visiting America and was stopped by the police the one thing I wouldn't do is try and break free, jump back in my car and try and drive away because you are putting yourself in a situation where you are likely to be shot by a trigger happy officer.

[chrisp65]

12 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

If I was visiting America and was stopped by the police the one thing I wouldn't do is try and break free, jump back in my car and try and drive away because you are putting yourself in a situation where you are likely to be shot by a trigger happy officer.

That’s a very sensible and rational thought process. I think we probably all agree with it.

Now, let’s make it late at night, let’s have you surrounded by angry cops that don’t like you that are fiddling with their guns. They are nervous, the situation is escalating whatever you do and whatever answers you give. The TV for the last year has been full of people like you being shot by people like them for no clear explainable reason. It’s really really beginning to feel like you are in genuine danger of your life, either being shot or strangled.

How’s that sensible and rational thought process holding up?

[HanoiVillan]

14 hours ago, LondonLax said:

They have created the society they want. Americans are able to remove guns from their country if they wanted to, anytime they chose to vote for it. It’s not some foreign power making them have guns so easily available. Us tut tutting from afar is pointless. 

Yes, this. People living in other countries do need to do a bit of hardening-their-hearts to this stuff. Their revealed preference, as a society, is to keep having access to firearms, because they perceive the benefits to be greater than the costs. There's not much point in us emoting over the costs to their decisions.

[villakram]

8 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

That’s a very sensible and rational thought process. I think we probably all agree with it.

Now, let’s make it late at night, let’s have you surrounded by angry cops that don’t like you that are fiddling with their guns. They are nervous, the situation is escalating whatever you do and whatever answers you give. The TV for the last year has been full of people like you being shot by people like them for no clear explainable reason. It’s really really beginning to feel like you are in genuine danger of your life, either being shot or strangled.

How’s that sensible and rational thought process holding up?

 Probably ok if I don't have a warrant for arrest outstanding. Robbery with a gun in the case of the late Mr. Wright.

The system is working in this case. Bodycam footage clearly shows what happened and the former officer is now going through due process. That this clear progress is completely ignored is rather unfortunate. These types of events will happen, our goal should be to (i) minimize their occurrence, by implementing systems etc, and (ii) appropriate response when they occur. 

The progress on (ii) has been good in recent years. (i) will in some sense be self-fulfilling, but with a lag as the consequences of (ii) start to percolate through the system and it responds to protect itself. In this case, I expect police forces to rapidly look to adopt policies that prevent "accidental" use of the firearm. In Minnesota, they've already payed out ~$25m directly for Chauvin and who knows how much in economic damage and then the ongoing trial. There is no better way to engender change than the almighty dollar.

[chrisp65]

2 minutes ago, villakram said:

 Probably ok if I don't have a warrant for arrest outstanding. Robbery with a gun in the case of the late Mr. Wright.

The system is working in this case. Bodycam footage clearly shows what happened and the former officer is now going through due process. That this clear progress is completely ignored is rather unfortunate. These types of events will happen, our goal should be to (i) minimize their occurrence, by implementing systems etc, and (ii) appropriate response when they occur. 

The progress on (ii) has been good in recent years. (i) will in some sense be self-fulfilling, but with a lag as the consequences of (ii) start to percolate through the system and it responds to protect itself. In this case, I expect police forces to rapidly look to adopt policies that prevent "accidental" use of the firearm. In Minnesota, they've already payed out ~$25m directly for Chauvin and who knows how much in economic damage and then the ongoing trial. There is no better way to engender change than the almighty dollar.

Yeah, it’s no good having a Claudette Colvin, you need a Rosa Parks.

Agree on the dollar being the route of change. Clearly there isn’t a body count figure that is going to cause change, it’s only the dollar cost that will trigger real change. For all the outrage at when people protest turns violent, it’s only ever damage to property that gets attention and action.

 

 

 

[mykeyb]

11 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

That’s a very sensible and rational thought process. I think we probably all agree with it.

Now, let’s make it late at night, let’s have you surrounded by angry cops that don’t like you that are fiddling with their guns. They are nervous, the situation is escalating whatever you do and whatever answers you give. The TV for the last year has been full of people like you being shot by people like them for no clear explainable reason. It’s really really beginning to feel like you are in genuine danger of your life, either being shot or strangled.

How’s that sensible and rational thought process holding up?

And trying to escape while surrounded by police who are eager to pull their weapons........I would do everything to comply.

[Spoony]

8 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Yes, this. People living in other countries do need to do a bit of hardening-their-hearts to this stuff. Their revealed preference, as a society, is to keep having access to firearms, because they perceive the benefits to be greater than the costs. There's not much point in us emoting over the costs to their decisions.

This simplifies things too much in my opinion. The NRF has so much power and lobbying ability that it distorts any kind of democratic debate over gun control. Take away their propaganda and money machine and I’d be interested to see where a modern American stands on the issue.

[bickster]

8 minutes ago, Spoony said:

This simplifies things too much in my opinion. The NRF has so much power and lobbying ability that it distorts any kind of democratic debate over gun control. Take away their propaganda and money machine and I’d be interested to see where a modern American stands on the issue.

They've spent so much money and time that the debate over gun control ingrained in society. They don't need to spend another penny, Take the currently bankrupt NRA away today and you are still a good century away from and sort of meaningful lack of publicly owned weapons. It's not just the ideas, its the jobs too

[fightoffyour]

Body cam footage has been released of an unarmed 13 year old boy being shot and killed in Chicago a few weeks ago. Unfortunately it looks like the police officer’s instincts were reinforced by the instructions on the kid’s top.

[bobzy]

20 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

Body cam footage has been released of an unarmed 13 year old boy being shot and killed in Chicago a few weeks ago. Unfortunately it looks like the police officer’s instincts were reinforced by the instructions on the kid’s top.

Nothing to see here. Just another kid being shot by police. Completely fine. 

[bobzy]

Also, 8 people killed in a mass shooting at a FedEx facility.

In any other western country, this would be pretty shocking stuff. Not in the good ol’ USA though!

[villa89]

4 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Also, 8 people killed in a mass shooting at a FedEx facility.

Only 8? Barely make the local news.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, fightoffyour said:

Body cam footage has been released of an unarmed 13 year old boy being shot and killed in Chicago a few weeks ago. Unfortunately it looks like the police officer’s instincts were reinforced by the instructions on the kid’s top.

I've seen this.

I'm not defending the action at all, but I think the kid WAS armed, and threw the gun away at the last minute.

It's still shocking. The kid turned around with his hands up at a safe distance and is immediately shot. I don't condone it at all.

 

But the kid having a gun at one point is probably what made the officer trigger happy

[OutByEaster?]

But they need guns for sport and fun and fighting off the government.

 

[desensitized43]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I've seen this.

I'm not defending the action at all, but I think the kid WAS armed, and threw the gun away at the last minute.

It's still shocking. The kid turned around with his hands up at a safe distance and is immediately shot. I don't condone it at all.

 

But the kid having a gun at one point is probably what made the officer trigger happy

Yeah if you've seen the whole video, you can clearly see he threw the gun behind the fence.

Not that it makes it right. It does seem like the officer waited all of about a second after saying "drop it" to fire.

Again, not trying to justify their actions, but I think a lot of the problems of trigger happy cops over there is because they're pretty terrified and who can really blame them? Imagine having to make a routine stop and knowing how many people are armed in that country. It's such a militarized society, they literally have to be ready to defend themselves every second.

[fightoffyour]

10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I've seen this.

I'm not defending the action at all, but I think the kid WAS armed, and threw the gun away at the last minute.

It's still shocking. The kid turned around with his hands up at a safe distance and is immediately shot. I don't condone it at all.

 

But the kid having a gun at one point is probably what made the officer trigger happy

Yes, it sounds like he was armed. In fact, I think they released the footage to show the gun in his hand and lying on the ground afterwards (do they have to release such footage?), but instead they have a freeze frame of a kid with his empty hands in the air right at the moment he was shot and killed.

[desensitized43]

https://news.sky.com/story/fedex-shooting-eight-killed-and-more-injured-in-shooting-at-facility-in-indianapolis-12276796?fbclid=IwAR2ZaPeVuiJ4EuvFaaT0zDehk5DH8xjZeNB8W3Qc2UfAzVZteJZPuPmhcf0

Quote

Eight people have been killed in a shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis.

At least four people are in hospital - one with critical gunshot injuries - while two others were treated at the scene and released following the incident late on Thursday.

 

Several others walked into hospitals in nearby areas.

The gunman also took his own life and police said they believe there is no longer an active threat to the community.

Here we go again