Gun violence in the USA

[Xela]

I don't blame US cops being jumpy when doing a traffic stop. Every one must feel like it could be the last thing you do

New Mexico, couple of days ago, cop executed on a routine traffic stop. 28 years old, father and wife pregnant. 

Absolutely thankless job. 

[Davkaus]

The US population seem to have far more reason to fear the police than the police have to fear the public.

The video of Lieutenant Nazrario's traffic stop doing the rounds earlier this week was chilling. Another example of someone being stopped for driving while black, stopped at gunpoint, given contradictory commands, and being absolutely terrified to move because it's clear from the cop's demeanor that he was looking for an excuse to shoot. If the victim hadn't been so switched on, it'd have gone the way of Daniel Shaver.

 

 

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

The US population seem to have far more reason to fear the police than the police have to fear the public.

The video of Lieutenant Nazrario's traffic stop doing the rounds earlier this week was chilling. Another example of someone being stopped for driving while black, stopped at gunpoint, given contradictory commands, and being absolutely terrified to move because it's clear from the cop's demeanor that he was looking for an excuse to shoot. If the victim hadn't been so switched on, it'd have gone the way of Daniel Shaver.

 

 

"I'm honestly scared to get out of the car"

"And you should be!"

Jesus.

[a m ole]

It goes to show that gun control isn’t just about school shootings or domestic homicides and the like. Regular police officers with a few hours of conflict resolution training and a gun will constantly assume anyone they stop has a gun and might use it.

[Chindie]

7 minutes ago, a m ole said:

It goes to show that gun control isn’t just about school shootings or domestic homicides and the like. Regular police officers with a few hours of conflict resolution training and a gun will constantly assume anyone they stop has a gun and might use it.

In a number of states they are actively trained to think that way. That every single person they encounter is an evil enemy combatant in waiting and they will, sooner or later, try to kill you, and your job is to make sure you don't die and good wins in the war on the streets.

That isn't exaggerated. It's what taught as part of 'Killogy', a course ran by David Grossman that hundreds of police departments use as part of their training. As part of it they are shown what happens if they don't pull the trigger - a famous case where a traffic cop pulled a guy over who wouldn't follow instructions and eventually shot and killed the officer.

As a result, they do pull the trigger. A lot. And they 99% of the time get away with it because of the police union system throwing it's weight behind any case brought against an officer (seemingly the only reason they've not got behind the officer in the Floyd case is it's so blindingly clear he's **** it was a loser all ends up).

[LondonLax]

In a country like the US police are at risk whenever they pull someone over. It works both ways. 

It won’t change until the guns are removed from circulation but the US doesn’t want to do that

[bannedfromHandV]

People are scared of the police, the police are scared of people, and they’re ‘all’ armed......recipe for disaster.

[jimmygreaves]

[Big Salad]

It just saddens me so much when thinking about gun related violence here in the US.

Just sad,depressing, etc all in equal measure.

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, Big Salad said:

It just saddens me so much when thinking about gun related violence here in the US.

Just sad,depressing, etc all in equal measure.

Even more so when there’s a really simple solution.

[mjmooney]

7 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Even more so when there’s a really simple solution.

There isn't, though. 

[OutByEaster?]

3 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

There isn't, though. 

There is, it's simple - it's not quick but it's simple.

You put in place gun legislation that isn't from the 19th Century, you stop selling guns, you stop new guns getting onto the streets or into the hands of the public and then over the next fifty or sixty years, you confiscate every gun you can and then eventually you have a society that is largely disarmed and isn't terrified every time they get out of the car.

 

[Chindie]

13 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

There is, it's simple - it's not quick but it's simple.

You put in place gun legislation that isn't from the 19th Century, you stop selling guns, you stop new guns getting onto the streets or into the hands of the public and then over the next fifty or sixty years, you confiscate every gun you can and then eventually you have a society that is largely disarmed and isn't terrified every time they get out of the car.

 

But then every bad guy will have a gun and will then take your stuff, kill your family and rape your corpses, as happens around the world without guns in the general population.

[Genie]

24 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

There is, it's simple - it's not quick but it's simple.

You put in place gun legislation that isn't from the 19th Century, you stop selling guns, you stop new guns getting onto the streets or into the hands of the public and then over the next fifty or sixty years, you confiscate every gun you can and then eventually you have a society that is largely disarmed and isn't terrified every time they get out of the car.

 

If there would be no resistance to that plan then it’s a good one.

The problem is those in opposition to it are threatening all out war, and they are well armed!

[villakram]

It seems the problem is democracy, once again.

Well and an all too easily irascible crowd. This is a fundamental property of humans and is malleable, fortunately. It will take a long, long time in the US, however. Absent some exogenous shock, I don't see much changing in my lifetime 

Edited April 14, 2021 by villakram

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

There isn't, though. 

Well, most of the developed world don’t allow their citizens to own/carry guns.

We don’t have much gun crime in the UK, mass shootings could probably be counted on one hand over the past two decades or more. 

It’s really really simple, if people don’t have guns, they can’t use guns to kill people with, sure they’ll revert to a knife or something instead but I’d fancy my chances against a knife over a gun every day of the week.

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

There is, it's simple - it's not quick but it's simple.

You put in place gun legislation that isn't from the 19th Century, you stop selling guns, you stop new guns getting onto the streets or into the hands of the public and then over the next fifty or sixty years, you confiscate every gun you can and then eventually you have a society that is largely disarmed and isn't terrified every time they get out of the car.

But then to which politician do the gun lobbyists give their dollars to? 

They need a prolonged campaign of changing culture first, making the public not so damn scared and living in fear but let's be honest the somewhere between the mad man breaking in to your house in the middle of the night to eat your children and jesus the government might actually like keeping them scared... 

[villakram]

This may have been posted here before. This is the level of policing in much of the US. In any interaction with the police, you must comply 100%. If tactical units are around, yikes... much of this is one of those unintended consequences of processing America's young through the wars in Iraq and Afghan. 

FYI: This is a really rough watch.

The death of Daniel Shaver, bodycam footage. 

 

[mjmooney]

57 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Well, most of the developed world don’t allow their citizens to own/carry guns.

We don’t have much gun crime in the UK, mass shootings could probably be counted on one hand over the past two decades or more. 

It’s really really simple, if people don’t have guns, they can’t use guns to kill people with, sure they’ll revert to a knife or something instead but I’d fancy my chances against a knife over a gun every day of the week.

Yes, I know. But we didn't start from the same place. When the US Constitution was drawn up, they'd just come off a war against a much more powerful enemy (us), they needed a citizens' militia, and most of the country was wilderness, full of dangerous wildlife and (rightly) hostile natives. Whereas Britain was an established and stable island state, where the vast majority of citizens had no need to carry firearms. It wasn't a part of our cultural mindset, as it was - and remains - in the USA. You think it's a simple solution to disarm the population of the USA? In theory, yes. In practice, it's well nigh impossible. 

[villa4europe]

51 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Yes, I know. But we didn't start from the same place. When the US Constitution was drawn up, they'd just come off a war against a much more powerful enemy (us), they needed a citizens' militia, and most of the country was wilderness, full of dangerous wildlife and (rightly) hostile natives. Whereas Britain was an established and stable island state, where the vast majority of citizens had no need to carry firearms. It wasn't a part of our cultural mindset, as it was - and remains - in the USA. You think it's a simple solution to disarm the population of the USA? In theory, yes. In practice, it's well nigh impossible. 

There's no way it would ever pass, the only way it could happen would be if the president took dictatorial powers and insisted on it... And there's an argument for them owning guns so that he can't abuse dictatorial powers which would no doubt see them try and rise up against it 

It'll never ever pass a vote