The Tim Sherwood Thread

[TRO]

I'd be amazed if they didn't know what was wrong....putting it right is an entirely different thing.

 

Lambert didn't recognise though and many managers fail to do in game. Rogers at Liverpool- no plan B, hence he is now walking up the steps before the hanging commences. 

I think it was MarkAVFC40 that mentioned when Gil came off it should have been for Hutton who should have slotted in at RB with Bacuna in front providing the cover, Veretout on for Grealish or Sinclair and drop to a flat 4-5-1- Or something along those lines. I totally agreed with that as I thought we needed to kill the game with numbers in our half when we went 2-0 up as Leicester were pushing us back. He didn't react to that in the slightest the way he should of which was disappointing imo. 

Anyway what's done is done but it has put a shit load of pressure on us beating the baggies next sat which I don't think we needed right now.

  

                   I agree....at  0-2 against a free scoring side......I would have gone 4-5-1

                    However, hindsight is an exact science......but we need to get behind him now.

 

[CrackpotForeigner]

Obviously he's got deficiencies, but at least he's recognised that he needs plenty of help (which Lambert failed to do).

He seems like someone who will make the effort to learn how to play a tactical game. If he doesn't he won't last, and I hope he does. His heroics in the transfer market have won him plenty of patience from me, anyway (but then I'm a patient guy ).

Edited September 15, 2015 by CrackpotForeigner
punctuation

[lexicon]

Lambert got a longer grace period because he had a job that required it. Sherwood's brief is to build on the platform Lambert left and he's bought over 50 million quid's worth of players in one go. I certainly expect us to be able to hold a 2-0 lead away at Leicester at this point in his tenure.

[nazvfc]

Lambert got a longer grace period because he had a job that required it. Sherwood's brief is to build on the platform Lambert left and he's bought over 50 million quid's worth of players in one go. I certainly expect us to be able to hold a 2-0 lead away at Leicester at this point in his tenure.

Lambert got a longer grace period because he had a job that required it. Sherwood's brief is to build on the platform Lambert left and he's bought over 50 million quid's worth of players in one go. I certainly expect us to be able to hold a 2-0 lead away at Leicester at this point in his tenure.

that's funny because better teams than villa threw away leads against this team so it's not just us that do it but because it's lowly Leicester we HAVE to beat them. They are not second by luck. I'm disappointed too but it's only 5 games in. Chelsea have better players and even they are not playing well and they have a team that's been together longer than ours. 

Leicester at home have s very vocal crowd the 12th man to lift them. 

lets just see around January then evaluate. Talk of relegation and getting rid of sherwood ( granted by only a few) is bloody stupid. 

At the start of the season most said we need patience but seems again that is not the case for many as it's so simple to win a game going by the logic of some. 

 

 

[HeyAnty]

Sack him, hasn't the slightest scooby!

[myb]

Lambert got a longer grace period because he had a job that required it. Sherwood's brief is to build on the platform Lambert left and he's bought over 50 million quid's worth of players in one go. I certainly expect us to be able to hold a 2-0 lead away at Leicester at this point in his tenure.

The platform left by Lambert?? Are you having a laugh!?! Lambert left a sinking ship. The only good thing he did for the club was bringing in Benteke which has enabled Sherwood to embark on something of a rebuild required as a result of the wider mess Lambert left. It was never going to be an overnight fix. But compare our 2 x performances at Leicester (at the end of Lamberts tenure, and this one under Sherwood.) no comparison.

[sexbelowsound]

Sherwood has at least a season for me before I would even start thinking that his time would be up however if we continue to have results like the one at the weekend then I fully expect people to raise their concerns. 

It was shocking and he isn't immune to criticism just because he joined a sinking ship.

[lexicon]

Lambert got a longer grace period because he had a job that required it. Sherwood's brief is to build on the platform Lambert left and he's bought over 50 million quid's worth of players in one go. I certainly expect us to be able to hold a 2-0 lead away at Leicester at this point in his tenure.

The platform left by Lambert?? Are you having a laugh!?! Lambert left a sinking ship. The only good thing he did for the club was bringing in Benteke which has enabled Sherwood to embark on something of a rebuild required as a result of the wider mess Lambert left. It was never going to be an overnight fix. But compare our 2 x performances at Leicester (at the end of Lamberts tenure, and this one under Sherwood.) no comparison.

Lambert left a cheap team with a couple of stars, the Benteke money allowing us to rebuild quite significantly this summer. That's what is known as a platform to work with. Compare that to what he inherited.

[dn1982]

we are a new team that's still getting to know each other and getting players to acclimatise yet we were the better team at Leicester. That team had about £10m of new signings in it and played some great football first half. The subs cost us but the majority of the time we see that game out no problem regardless. I'll look at the game as a whole not just the mad last 20 which is a one off. For the rest of the game we looked like we were developing well. If it becomes a consist theme of not holding on to 2 nil leads and bad subs I'll be worried at present its not so no need to over react. 

[Straggler]

I'd be amazed if they didn't know what was wrong....putting it right is an entirely different thing.

 

Lambert didn't recognise though and many managers fail to do in game. Rogers at Liverpool- no plan B, hence he is now walking up the steps before the hanging commences. 

I think it was MarkAVFC40 that mentioned when Gil came off it should have been for Hutton who should have slotted in at RB with Bacuna in front providing the cover, Veretout on for Grealish or Sinclair and drop to a flat 4-5-1- Or something along those lines. I totally agreed with that as I thought we needed to kill the game with numbers in our half when we went 2-0 up as Leicester were pushing us back. He didn't react to that in the slightest the way he should of which was disappointing imo. 

Anyway what's done is done but it has put a shit load of pressure on us beating the baggies next sat which I don't think we needed right now.

  

                   I agree....at  0-2 against a free scoring side......I would have gone 4-5-1

                    However, hindsight is an exact science......but we need to get behind him now.

 

Hindsight is not at exact science it is an art, which is known as History in academic circles (Hence the Bachelor of Arts for history graduates). There is a famous quote often attributed to Winston Churchill, but did in fact originate with a philosopher George Santayana.

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Now I am not really one for crowd sourcing footballing tactics nor am I one for overestimating the abilities of the average football fan to run a professional football team.  However I would be remiss to dismiss the combined experience and intelligence of the fans on here who have been watching and analyzing games some for more than half a century.  Posts like the ones above regarding the change in formation match my own feelings.  It seems like it matches the feelings of most of the people watching the game.  Tim had very different ideas on how to close out the game.  The result is proof that the decisions were poor ones, but unfortunately it is impossible to prove that different decisions would have resulted in a different result, so we can argue the toss on that until the cows come home.  It may be that Tim is an innovator and that we (and possibly the team) do not yet understand how the changes he made should have closed out the game for us and that given time tactics like that will work and adopted more widely.  It is also possible and to my mind the more likely that substitutions like those against Leicester will continue to fail and Tim will learn from his mistakes and adopt the more traditional approach that most of the people on here seemed to favor at the time.  It is certainly too early to suggest that he won't learn from his mistakes despite similar capitulations this season.  He is palpably a different manager now to the one at Spurs and even compared to the man that turned up at the dog end of last season.  He has adopted changes to his style and his tactics, I genuinely hope he can keep going until he finds the winning formula.

[Danishlad]

It was obvious that Sanchez was tired, Westwood way too attacking, bacuna getting destroyed, grealish/ gil were tiring, Amavi on a yellow, 

we needed a defensive fresh pair of legs or two in midfield, just to win a few tackles and get back into position a little more quickly.

sherwood takes credit for the first half- but must take blame for the second.

leicesters centre backs were very slow - Gabby destroyed them- we shouldnt have talen him off

 

[hippo]

Obviously we can't sack him yet.

But his recent stats make very poor reading - we seem to be loosing most matches - sure give him time, but Ive not known a manager go from such a loosing streak, to having a half decent side. I really think he will be under severe pressure pressure by christmas.

[Bunnski]

There is no defence of how he managed the second half the other day, Leicester came out second half and we're flying at us. They had 3 great chances and the clock was only at 48 minutes gone, I remember thinking here we go let's see how Sherwood reacts to this and see if he has learned from previous games where teams make a tactical change to counter him and instead of doing something positive about it he actually goes and makes it easier for Leicester by giving our defence and midfield zero help while they are getting the run around.

He has to learn how to close out a game and keep it tight especially when we are 2 up. Bacuna should of been off for hutton as he was a liability all game but only gets subbed on 87 minutes, it's idiotic and Clark, Richardson or veretout could of come in to help out and give us fresh legs or even go 3 at the back with an extra midfielder infront also.

This type of shit keeps happening and we are losing valuable points because of it. I'm all for going all out attack from the start of a game but any decent manager reacts accordingly and once you get 2 up with half an hour to play it's time to tighten up and close the game out, it's so basic that's why it's so worrying.

[HanoiVillan]

Obviously we can't sack him yet.

But his recent stats make very poor reading - we seem to be loosing most matches - sure give him time, but Ive not known a manager go from such a loosing streak, to having a half decent side. I really think he will be under severe pressure pressure by christmas.

Are you kidding? What do you think has happened to Leicester over the last twelve months?

[osmark86]

Obviously we can't sack him yet.

But his recent stats make very poor reading - we seem to be loosing most matches - sure give him time, but Ive not known a manager go from such a loosing streak, to having a half decent side. I really think he will be under severe pressure pressure by christmas.

Are you kidding? What do you think has happened to Leicester over the last twelve months?

was gonna say...

[hippo]

Obviously we can't sack him yet.

But his recent stats make very poor reading - we seem to be loosing most matches - sure give him time, but Ive not known a manager go from such a loosing streak, to having a half decent side. I really think he will be under severe pressure pressure by christmas.

Are you kidding? What do you think has happened to Leicester over the last twelve months?

Its a different manager - and even if you accept Leicester are transformed - they are are very much the exception.  

[Gary Thomas]

Some of the comments on this thread seem a bit OTT to me.  We’re all frustrated by what happened at Leicester, but there are so many positives about Sherwood.  People need to get their chins off the floor now and get some perspective.  Sherwood is a young and ambitious manager and he's been a breath of fresh air since he arrived, for me anyway.  He wants success as much as we do and he has assembled the most talented and balanced squad I have seen in ages at Villa - we have not seen anything like the best of them yet.  We did well at Palace against a very good side and were unlucky not to draw.  We outplayed Sunderland and at 70mins we were beating Leicester 2-0 in their backyard – a side that have not lost in 11 PL games!  OK, we had a bloody awful 20mins with a catalogue of errors and yes Sherwood cocked-up with his in-match decisions and tactics etc..  But the guy is not daft and I expect him to improve from these harsh  lessons.  As my old mate Confucious once said, “Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising every time we fail.”  A couple of ticks in the win column and we be on our way.  Wins against the baggies and small eff would be the perfect antidote; lets help make it happen with our vocal support Saturday. UTV.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Gary Thomas

[BOF]

I agree Gary.  I also think it's probably the harshest lesson he has learned in his time here and I suspect he learned it very very well.  I expect our substitutions to be a lot less gung-ho from here on.  I expect them to make more sense (they could hardly make less sense).  More conservative and probably with more consultation from his right-hand man.

 

What he did against Leicester was put out a starting 11 that went 2 up away from home against a side who had taken more points than anyone else in the previous, what, 15 or so games in the league?  Either way, he went to the Crisp Munchers and made a statistically-very-good team look very ordinary.  The rest is history.  But the blue-print is definitely there.  Our manager will learn just as our players will.  I don't mind him making mistakes.  I mind him making the same one twice.  So let's move on and batter the useless Boggies.

[juanpabloangel18]

Positives far out-weighing the negatives for me. We are good going forward, just need to be less naive defensively.

Every game we have lost has been to a one goal margin and we have been really unlucky. Performances > results at this stage.

Next two games are huge but I'm confident we'll win both.

[a m ole]

Spot on BOF.

 

Also, just thinking back about his interview, in the heat of the moment he says "I ain't never felt this bad."

Although he does mention individual errors costing us, the choice of words does imply he feels responsible. You could see guilt and embarrassment on his face, and whatever way you look at it he seems like a man that would try harder than anyone to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Contrast this with the Lambert interviews that many took issue with where he seemed to have accepted fate and didn't have any fight in him.