What is your experience of mental health?

[kurtsimonw]

On 20/05/2019 at 17:12, mjmooney said:

No, no, no, no, no. This is just plain WRONG. Nobody is 'meant to be' anything. There is no 'fate'.

That doesn't mean 'you can be anything you want to be', or any such nonsense. But you CAN influence things, and external factors can cause changes that you hadn't seen coming. In the meantime, you just carry on, and look for the good stuff - a sunny day, a Villa win, a piece of music, a bacon sandwich, a good book. Religion, if that's what floats your boat. And (I'm sorry if this sounds patronising, it's not meant to be) - stop bloody feeling sorry for yourself. You don't live in Syria, or the 10th Century, you're damned lucky to be here and now - being a bloke without a girlfriend and feeling like a loser is a drag (I know, I've been there), but it's temporary. Live. 

It's not about feeling sorry for yourself. It's about feeling something that isn't a choice. I wish I was just perfectly happy and content on my own, but I'm not. I've been that way long enough to know it's not something I'm just going to grow in to being happy with. The single life isn't what is getting me down, it's just what compounds it.

As for "it could be worse". I don't care. I feel the way I do. Someone on the street has no more right to be down or depressed as someone with billions. Feelings are feelings and it's shit when no end of therapy, medication or self help seems to help. Even Villa going up is more of just an odd moment of enjoyment, not happiness.

You're right, there's no such things as fate. I'm just fed up, lonely and unhappy.

[Skruff]

5 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

Feelings are feelings and it's shit when no end of therapy, medication or self help seems to help. Even Villa going up is more of just an odd moment of enjoyment, not happiness. 

It's sad that you're feeling this way. I hope that you get out of this sooner rather then later. Have faith that it will get better, at some point, it will. Even if there's a sense of hopelessness at the moment. We're all in here rooting for you. 

May I ask what sort of therapy, medication or self help you've been thru/tried out? And what sort of help are you receiving at the moment? 

[KenjiOgiwara]

On 20/05/2019 at 18:46, Xela said:

Probably inappropriate given the subject but its an open goal!

 

At least you now know what the A stand for in his username

[maqroll]

lately I get these feelings of deep dread. Not fear or foreboding...just dread, like there's no hope. what a bitch

[kurtsimonw]

On 31/05/2019 at 04:34, Skruff said:

It's sad that you're feeling this way. I hope that you get out of this sooner rather then later. Have faith that it will get better, at some point, it will. Even if there's a sense of hopelessness at the moment. We're all in here rooting for you. 

May I ask what sort of therapy, medication or self help you've been thru/tried out? And what sort of help are you receiving at the moment? 

I've had group therapy, CBT, citalopram I was last one. Ive had two other medications, then also propranolol which I'm still on for anxiety. Self help was more just trying to focus on positives, meditation, yoga type stuff. 

In reality though, everyone is different. This isn't a "boo hoo I can't get a girlfriend" issue. It's a result of it. Waking up alone, working for what? So I have a house to go home alone to, and sleep alone in, and repeat? That isn't life, it's existing. 

The fact I've found it essentially impossible to even get a conversation or a date with someone just compounds things even further. It's not just the lonliness then, it's the feeling that I'm not worth anything, that I'm ugly. I've always tried to be a realist, base things on the facts at hand. Unfortunately that paints a very bad picture for me, and that's life, apparently. 

[AvfcRigo82]

3 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

I've had group therapy, CBT, citalopram I was last one. Ive had two other medications, then also propranolol which I'm still on for anxiety. Self help was more just trying to focus on positives, meditation, yoga type stuff. 

In reality though, everyone is different. This isn't a "boo hoo I can't get a girlfriend" issue. It's a result of it. Waking up alone, working for what? So I have a house to go home alone to, and sleep alone in, and repeat? That isn't life, it's existing. 

The fact I've found it essentially impossible to even get a conversation or a date with someone just compounds things even further. It's not just the lonliness then, it's the feeling that I'm not worth anything, that I'm ugly. I've always tried to be a realist, base things on the facts at hand. Unfortunately that paints a very bad picture for me, and that's life, apparently. 

Hey Kurt.

I don't know about you but coming home to an empty house after nearly 10 years of "I thought you were home for 9ish? it's gone 11.30!! - Dinner's in the microwave" and the other 10,001 shits storms inbetween, is actually bliss in itself. 

 

From what I am reading, Have you thought that while your head is going through all this emotion regards self worth, attraction etc. is it the right time to be looking and striking up conversations with women? (I know that sounds worse than what I mean) but subconsciously without even realising you could equally be giving off an aura of desperation in your voice which makes women run a mile at the best of times?  - I thought it was because I hadn't had a bath for 9 weeks!.  

Besides, some women can equally be ignorant bastards too and trying to get an answer out of them is hard enough at the best of times, let alone striking up a conversation.

On a note of recommendation, take a few months off of the wanting a woman and enjoy the summer mate.

Absorb the sun (if we get any) and spend the summer repairing yourself and geting your Mojo back. Do things that channel a positive energy back into you.

From where I am sitting and reading I do not think while your current state of mind is how it is, is a good time to be hunting for a woman? But that is just me of course and everyone is different I accept.

Your self worth will come back but you need to equally allow it to come back too mate.

Women like men with a bit of confidence in many different areas. Do you feel confidence flowing through you right now?

It will come right for you and she will come along, you've equally got to be ready for her when she does my friend.  

 

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by AvfcRigo82

[kurtsimonw]

I am not actively searching in that sense. I don't speak to someone with the aim of getting a date. And with apps and stuff I'm not even getting to the point of messaging to put them off in that sense! 

My worth won't come back until something changes. You don't give yourself worth, the world gives it to you and decides your value. It's telling me I'm worth very little right now. 

[choffer]

2 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

My worth won't come back until something changes. You don't give yourself worth, the world gives it to you and decides your value. It's telling me I'm worth very little right now. 

VT is part of the world and the responses you've had publicly and privately should give you some worth. A random bunch of strangers care enough about you to reach out and try and help, not because they're a bunch of do-gooders but because you seem like a good guy.

[El Zen]

On 14/06/2019 at 08:49, kurtsimonw said:

My worth won't come back until something changes. You don't give yourself worth, the world gives it to you and decides your value. It's telling me I'm worth very little right now. 

I’m not sure I agree with that. Not entirely, anyway. Obviously, no man is an island and we’re not immune from our own perception of other people’s perceptions of ourselves. However, I do think we can control the extent to which we let these things affect us and also consciously control said perceptions of other people’s opinions. 

Not trying to sound like a dick, but I’m pretty good at telling myself I’m a good person. Feeling confident about this, I tend to think that most people feel the same way about me as I do. If people don’t like me, my natural instinct has become to think there’s something wrong with them, not me. 

Maybe this is all the product of unconditionally loving parents and a safe environment, but I tend to think of my feeling of self worth as something I can and do control. I do experience episodes of self doubt and feeling kind of useless, but I’m always able to consciously «talk» myself into feeling better about myself. I fundamentally think I’m a good person. Why would I be wrong about that? 

From reading your posts, you seem to almost pathologically interpret other people’s perception of you as being almost invariably negative. You seem to think that nobody likes you. I think you really need to consciously challange that perception, because it’s almost certainly not true. Your default position has to be that people think you’re alright. Everyone on here thinks you’re alright. Are we wrong? If we like you, why wouldn’t other people like you? What makes us so different from people in general? 

 

 

 

(On second thoughts, maybe don’t answer that last question.) 

[kurtsimonw]

40 minutes ago, Michelsen said:

I’m not sure I agree with that. Not entirely, anyway. Obviously, no man is an island and we’re not immune from our own perception of other people’s perceptions of ourselves. However, I do think we can control the extent to which we let these things affect us and also consciously control said perceptions of other people’s opinions. 

Not trying to sound like a dick, but I’m pretty good at telling myself I’m a good person. Feeling confident about this, I tend to think that most people feel the same way about me as I do. If people don’t like me, my natural instinct has become to think there’s something wrong with them, not me. 

Maybe this is all the product of unconditionally loving parents and a safe environment, but I tend to think of my feeling of self worth as something I can and do control. I do experience episodes of self doubt and feeling kind of useless, but I’m always able to consciously «talk» myself into feeling better about myself. I fundamentally think I’m a good person. Why would I be wrong about that? 

From reading your posts, you seem to almost pathologically interpret other people’s perception of you as being almost invariably negative. You seem to think that nobody likes you. I think you really need to consciously challange that perception, because it’s almost certainly not true. Your default position has to be that people think you’re alright. Everyone on here thinks you’re alright. Are we wrong? If we like you, why wouldn’t other people like you? What makes us so different from people in general? 

(On second thoughts, maybe don’t answer that last question.) 

I don't disagree with what you've said, but I don't think that necessarily ties in to your worth as such.

Fundamentally, I think I'm a good person. I am far from perfect, but I know that I try to do the right thing. People at work have said lots of positive things about me as a person. A few women I sit near know about my issues, I've been sitting next to them for such a long time that you get to the point where you're comfortable trusting/sharing. They always seem shocked that I've struggled in the dating World, they've nothing but high praise for me.

But... is having people think you are a good person really worth that much? In football terms, if other clubs think you're a decent player, but they won't take you on a free, are you actually worth anything? Of course I would rather be liked than disliked. But just because something isn't a negative, it doesn't make it a positive as such. In the last 3 months, I've done 1 thing with people outside, and that was a meal with the department I do overtime on - and I'm fairly sure I was only invited after they were talking about it and realised I wasn't actually invited on the original e-mail that went around, and felt awkward! I appreciate that people have busy lives, but I know that people do stuff with their friends. It seems, at best, I'm an acquaintance. Then the dating side of things, it hasn't worked out at all and it does make you feel ugly and unworthy - why else does nobody want to date you, or even give you a shot?

Ultimately, the most valuable thing to someone is their time. I'm not worth anyone's time, so it does make you feel like you have no value to others - regardless of people thinking you are nice or a good person, or even knowing that yourself.

[El Zen]

25 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

I don't disagree with what you've said, but I don't think that necessarily ties in to your worth as such.

Fundamentally, I think I'm a good person. I am far from perfect, but I know that I try to do the right thing. People at work have said lots of positive things about me as a person. A few women I sit near know about my issues, I've been sitting next to them for such a long time that you get to the point where you're comfortable trusting/sharing. They always seem shocked that I've struggled in the dating World, they've nothing but high praise for me.

But... is having people think you are a good person really worth that much? In football terms, if other clubs think you're a decent player, but they won't take you on a free, are you actually worth anything? Of course I would rather be liked than disliked. But just because something isn't a negative, it doesn't make it a positive as such. In the last 3 months, I've done 1 thing with people outside, and that was a meal with the department I do overtime on - and I'm fairly sure I was only invited after they were talking about it and realised I wasn't actually invited on the original e-mail that went around, and felt awkward! I appreciate that people have busy lives, but I know that people do stuff with their friends. It seems, at best, I'm an acquaintance. Then the dating side of things, it hasn't worked out at all and it does make you feel ugly and unworthy - why else does nobody want to date you, or even give you a shot?

Ultimately, the most valuable thing to someone is their time. I'm not worth anyone's time, so it does make you feel like you have no value to others - regardless of people thinking you are nice or a good person, or even knowing that yourself.

I’d say it’s worth everything.

Even still, you’re obviously worth something to someone. Your employer must think you’re worth your salary, for starters. Your co-workers who are shocked about your dating issues must think you’re worth their time to listen to you talk about it. The literally dozens of people who have tried to offer support in this thread must all think you’re worth their time - I’m spending some of mine right now. 

Look, you’re feeling lonely and socially ignored. I’m the last person who would ever tell you to act all Alpha male and machismo, but it’s hard to get away from the fact that fragility, gloominess and melancholy aren’t always the most attractive qualities. If you keep telling yourself that your melancholia and anxiety defines you as a person - which you seem to be doing - you’re not showing people that you want to be social and have fun. Show them the actual you, not let your demons define who your social persona is. 

Let me suggest something a little bit left field-ish, and forgive me if it comes across as hippie rubbish. Have you ever considered taking acting lessons? If you can’t feel confident and attractive, maybe you can learn to act like it? Either way, you’ll meet people. 

[kurtsimonw]

46 minutes ago, Michelsen said:

I’d say it’s worth everything.

Even still, you’re obviously worth something to someone. Your employer must think you’re worth your salary, for starters. Your co-workers who are shocked about your dating issues must think you’re worth their time to listen to you talk about it. The literally dozens of people who have tried to offer support in this thread must all think you’re worth their time - I’m spending some of mine right now. 

Look, you’re feeling lonely and socially ignored. I’m the last person who would ever tell you to act all Alpha male and machismo, but it’s hard to get away from the fact that fragility, gloominess and melancholy aren’t always the most attractive qualities. If you keep telling yourself that your melancholia and anxiety defines you as a person - which you seem to be doing - you’re not showing people that you want to be social and have fun. Show them the actual you, not let your demons define who your social persona is. 

Let me suggest something a little bit left field-ish, and forgive me if it comes across as hippie rubbish. Have you ever considered taking acting lessons? If you can’t feel confident and attractive, maybe you can learn to act like it? Either way, you’ll meet people. 

And I'm not saying those things aren't positives, far from it. 

Thing is, I don't act like a downer. Yes, the odd time I'll confide in someone about something that's really bringing me down, but they do the same with me - that's just being human. Generally I try to be positive, funny and engage in conversation. But despite that, I never get asked to do anything, and I always get turned down when I offer others to do something. 

Acting is something that sounds like hell to me. Having to speak during meetings is terrifying enough, I think acting is something so far out of my comfort zone that it'd just have adverse effects. I've tried a number of social type activities like that through MeetUp, also taking classes at the local college. But neither has had any of the desired results really.

Unfortunately it seems like people just don't value my time, that's probably a better way to put it. I can't not be me. I can be the very best version of me, but I still have to be me. It seems that's not enough.

[mottaloo]

59 minutes ago, Michelsen said:

Let me suggest something a little bit left field-ish, and forgive me if it comes across as hippie rubbish. Have you ever considered taking acting lessons? If you can’t feel confident and attractive, maybe you can learn to act like it? Either way, you’ll meet people. 

That is a great suggestion ! Like putting on a mask..........possibly in the hope that it could eventually have a positive effect in your day to day persona. After all, acting is mainly pretending to be someone else, someone you may not be.

[Skruff]

9 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

I don't disagree with what you've said, but I don't think that necessarily ties in to your worth as such.

Fundamentally, I think I'm a good person. I am far from perfect, but I know that I try to do the right thing. People at work have said lots of positive things about me as a person. A few women I sit near know about my issues, I've been sitting next to them for such a long time that you get to the point where you're comfortable trusting/sharing. They always seem shocked that I've struggled in the dating World, they've nothing but high praise for me.

But... is having people think you are a good person really worth that much? In football terms, if other clubs think you're a decent player, but they won't take you on a free, are you actually worth anything? Of course I would rather be liked than disliked. But just because something isn't a negative, it doesn't make it a positive as such. In the last 3 months, I've done 1 thing with people outside, and that was a meal with the department I do overtime on - and I'm fairly sure I was only invited after they were talking about it and realised I wasn't actually invited on the original e-mail that went around, and felt awkward! I appreciate that people have busy lives, but I know that people do stuff with their friends. It seems, at best, I'm an acquaintance. Then the dating side of things, it hasn't worked out at all and it does make you feel ugly and unworthy - why else does nobody want to date you, or even give you a shot?

Ultimately, the most valuable thing to someone is their time. I'm not worth anyone's time, so it does make you feel like you have no value to others - regardless of people thinking you are nice or a good person, or even knowing that yourself.

So you are able to list positive feedback you get from people.

Yet you deal with these very rigid definitions of yourself and your self worth. 

Your thinking is faulty in the sense that you disregard any positive input because it doesn't fit with the story you're telling yourself about yourself. 

For example you said you got invited to go out at a place you work part time(? I'm not sure what the department you do overtime on entails.)Anyways, you automatically assume you only got invited to avoid awkwardness. Yet there is nothing to suggest that? If you got left out it was probably because you're only there part time(if I understand correctly)? If you were invisble or they didn't care, they probably wouldn't have realised you weren't invited in the first place. That they invited you when they realised their mistake shows that they care. 

You also said that someone suggesting you to lower your standards was evidence for you being ugly. Yet it's a perfectly normal suggestion to give someone if they say they struggle to find a date/matches. Its more or less a standard response. It's something you can say to anyone who isn't a perfect 10. 

If you interpret everything in the worst possible way, and disregard any positives. It's becomes very difficult to feel good about yourself.

You've said you been looking into mediation and such. Have you tried Metta mediation? It might worth looking into. 

As for not having a social life, i.e: sitting at home waiting for a invite that never comes. The best solution for that is to start inviting people and taking the initiative yourself. And if you get rejected, it doesn't have to mean anything more then that they're busy. Or as others have suggestion find a past time activity. Get involved in something, volunteering, cooking, arts, craft, hiking groups. Have you tried something like that? 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Skruff

[mjmooney]

There are some good books on depression written by the Australian psychologist Dorothy Rowe

Quote

She spent her time working with depressed patients and, through listening to their stories, came to reject the medical model of mental illness, instead working within personal construct theory. She believes that depression is a result of beliefs which do not enable a person to live comfortably with themselves or the world. Most notably it is the belief in a "Just World" (that the bad are punished and the good rewarded) that exacerbates feelings of fear and anxiety if disaster strikes. Part of recovering is accepting that the external world is unpredictable and that we control relatively little of it.

Her attitude was not quite as glib as 'snap out of it', but she did take the line when we are depressed it's as if we are in a cage - and we do have the choice to open the door and walk out of it. 

[wazzap24]

15 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

There are some good books on depression written by the Australian psychologist Dorothy Rowe

Her attitude was not quite as glib as 'snap out of it', but she did take the line when we are depressed it's as if we are in a cage - and we do have the choice to open the door and walk out of it. 

A member of my family suffers from MH issues and this is similar to ‘cognitive behavioural therapy’ - It concentrates more on the individuals behaviours/triggers etc and teaches them how to deal with things as they happen. It gives them the tools to ‘break out of the cage’ so to speak. 

Not necessarily related to depression/MH issues, but ‘The Chimp Paradox’ by Dr Steve Peters is a great book on recognising how the mind works and what you can do to try and control it. 

[BillyShears]

One pearl I learned in training: The difference between your self concept and your self perception is the measure of your lack of self esteem. Very basic and works.

Kurtsimonw you are talking about it, it will get better. It's a long, long game, and time is a bitch.

[YLN]

4 hours ago, BillyShears said:

One pearl I learned in training: The difference between your self concept and your self perception is the measure of your lack of self esteem. Very basic and works.

Kurtsimonw you are talking about it, it will get better. It's a long, long game, and time is a bitch.

What are you training as?

Is it accredited? 

[Stevo985]

My girlfriend dropped a bombshell on me last week an told me she was Bulimic, and has been since she was 16 (that's 15 years).

She'd murder me if she knew I was putting this on an internet forum! But I'm interested in other people's experiences.

 

It was a bombshell because I had absolutely no idea it was happening. She's been getting treatment for the past year, so hasn't "done it" at all in that time. But even so we'd lived together for 2 years before that.
I knew she'd been going to counselling but she told me it was for anxiety, which I believed (why wouldn't I?)

Anyway, she's definitely on the mend it would seem. She's nearly off the medication she's been taking to stop it and no sign of a relapse. Only side effects is a bit of weight gain (for obvious reasons) .

 

I think I've been supportive. There's not much I can do really. I asked if there was any way I could help but there isn't really. All she asked is I don't start monitoring her or her eating or anything like that. Which I'd never do

 

Anyone got any experience of this kind of thing?

[BillyShears]

8 hours ago, YLN said:

What are you training as?

Is it accredited? 

That comes from some training I had in the USA, when I was working there, so it was part of the hospital training for working with mental health patients. It must have been accredited somewhere. I did my basic training years ago, now an Advanced Nurse Practitioner. I'm not a Mental Health Practitioner though.