Sunderland

[HongKongVillan]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I don't get that. I come from a working class area. I've since moved away from it. And I can sort of relate to this when it comes to money, clothes, how you speak and what not.  

I've seen the stuff you refer to, and I just don't get what he did wrong, other than dressing smart.  If he'd stood in the corner with some bimbo sipping amarone, then that would have been wrong as well.  

In general the dislike for Methven seems a bit OTT. He seems to be on the money about most things. He's communicating skills are a bit crude and the music scene was cringy AF  but other than than that I think both him and the owner come off well enough. I am only 4 episodes in mind. 

Agree with this - the music part is probably the only thing i thought he was wrong at.

 

With the Marketing lady - it was harsh, but he proves it can be done if you try hard enough.

[Mic09]

21 minutes ago, kwoktolai said:

With the Marketing lady - it was harsh, but he proves it can be done if you try hard enough.

I'm hesitant to judge him on the video, for all we know the marketing lady might be lazy and no good at all.

However, he comes across a one of those corporate management idiots from the 'city'. 

I am confident (from my experience) that the putting your arm across a person, listening to them and coaching, beats the corporate bullshit 8 out of 10 times. 

[maxjackle]

He was dealing with a failing team, with people used to hands off management and no scrutiny. In that situation sometimes there's no turning people around.

I thought they weren't that bad- the size of the job was enormous. It just shows how much damage bad owners can do to a club from top to bottom. Yes they got things wrong for sure but I bet there's tons worse out there.

[villa4europe]

Just started Sunderland till I die

Not sure if the link to the city stuff is guff, do sometimes feel like it's a shame brum simply can't do that

What I would say straight away is the editing isn't as good as all or nothing, losing to celtic in pre season flashes to the crowd booing... And there's a guy in full on winter coat, scarf, gloves

[Mic09]

On 08/04/2020 at 19:09, maxjackle said:

I thought they weren't that bad- the size of the job was enormous. It just shows how much damage bad owners can do to a club from top to bottom. Yes they got things wrong for sure but I bet there's tons worse out there.

It's an impossible job.

You can make all the right moves, but your team loses 3 games when they are not supposed to and it's season over. 

[Chindie]

**** hell the January window episode. That's definitely been mirrored in Villa boardrooms in recent years. Desperately overpaying for a striker in a streak. It's Hogan all over. But still... ****. A player everyone was saying is worth sub £1.5m and they end up panicking and paying £3m rising to £4m. Absolutely crazy.

And of course he couldn't score to save his life. Of course 

I have some sympathy for the owner with the Maja situation as well. They've been **** by an agent feathering his nest. Parasites.

[The_Rev]

Grigg is a Bluenose so bollocks to him, but he's made a career out of one good season and a chant which went viral.  He's scored 8 in 49 for Sunderland so far  and he turns thirty next year so I'm sure they are really happy with the money spent. 

[VillaChris]

16 hours ago, The_Rev said:

Grigg is a Bluenose so bollocks to him, but he's made a career out of one good season and a chant which went viral.  He's scored 8 in 49 for Sunderland so far  and he turns thirty next year so I'm sure they are really happy with the money spent. 

His record at league one level:

19 league goals for Walsall in 12/13

20 goals for Milton Keynes in 14/15 (promoted).

25 goals for Wigan in 15/16 (promoted)

19 goals for Wigan in 17/18 (promoted).

Never really done it in championship or at international level but that's not what Sunderland require. He's the league one equivilant of Tammy Abraham.

No idea why he can't score at Sunderland but I could see the logic in signing him and we know strikers go for stupid money at any level now. They also signed Wyke from Bradford who had a good scoring record for them and he can't score for Sunderland either. Guess the problem last season was relying on likes of Lee Cattermole for midfield creativity.

Sunderland signed him when he was only 27 btw. Jozy Altidore was a far worse signing upfront in recent years.

Edited April 11, 2020 by VillaChris

[The_Rev]

Also:

4 goals for Sunderland in 18/19

1 goal for Sunderland in 19/20

Still turns 30 next year.  That's the problem when clubs are giving people in their late twenties 3½ or 4 year contracts.  Unless they hit the ground running then the club is left with an asset they either can't shift or will have to take a massive loss on.  Maybe the season does start up again and Grigg scores an important goal on the way but his contribution has been minimal.   I'd get the logic if it had been a calculated risk but if the documentary is being wholly accurate and even the Sunderland manager didn't really want him, especially at almost triple what they thought he was worth then it screams panic buy.  

[VillaChris]

Yeah he's been a disaster at Sunderland, was just making the point I could see the logic in signing him given his previous seasons in league one. We signed McCormack at nearly 30 (and majority wanted him because of his 20 goal seasons at Fulham) so wouldn't say signing a 27 year old is that bad by comparison.

Darren Bent was only a few weeks off 27 when we signed him aswell. Those examples prove your point I guess but hardly anyone at the time was saying Darren Bent was too old. Sunderland were just signing Grigg to fire them out of league one in any case, that's the short term nature we see with so many signings at majority of clubs.

Edited April 11, 2020 by VillaChris

[Hornso]

For the majority of it I think Methven comes across decent enough, but having to be kept in check at the Checkatrade Trophy Final by his missus is cringeworthy and embarrassing for a man in his position.  

[rodders0223]

It is almost as if you when you give a 28 year old retirement contract they stop giving a ****.

Quite that simple. Footballers are words removed.

[Chindie]

Finished it last night.

I think everyone comes across quite well ultimately. Methven is as said a bit out of touch and so stereotypically a City marketing executive it hurts with elements of the clearing in the woods -ishness that can come with that. But he's generally got the right ideas for what they want to achieve.

The owner is a good man on the face of things but he's got naive ideas of what he wants to be which just can't happen for a club like Sunderland now. He can't plough a lone furrow with a club the size of Sunderland to get an 80s style club that is also successful - that world doesn't exist anymore. It's also obvious he's too invested emotionally. You want the owner to care, but equally they need to have an element of rationality and it seems like he's slightly too close to being another fan which is piling more stress on him. He looked broken after the playoff.

As always though, you just get stuck by how much they reflect us. I kept thinking of Lambert (and to a lesser extent Smith) while watching. They had the same thing we've experienced - occasionally great football going forwards but frequently dreadful stuff at the back. And the overspending on flops and over investing in 'value' players. And heavy reliance on a single flashy player to rescue games.

It's a really good watch. Doesn't have the production flashiness of Amazon's version, and focuses very heavily on the boardroom/back office, but still a really great watch.

[HanoiVillan]

Yeah, kind of agree with the consensus here. That Methven guy is not as bad as he was made out to be before the series started. Maybe because I had incredibly low expectations of him, he ended up exceeding them, and I don't get what's supposed to be so cringe about changing their music. What were they playing before that was so **** good? And is it not cool to conduct a sound-check or something? They're not like Everton or someone who have an iconic tune to come on to. The way he spoke to the woman at the side of the pitch wasn't on though, that was very disrespectful. And I instinctively dislike managers who judge the performance of their staff by whether they stay for free after their contracted hours. However, he also seemed to bring some actual drive and professionalism to it all, so in the end a bit of a mix of good and bad.

Seems to me like the owner is the bigger problem. As everyone has said, he's just far too emotionally invested and that's why he ends up getting rolled by Wigan. I know fans want an owner who cares, and it's easy to say this when it's not your club, but the owner has to be able to walk away from bad deals and apply a logical filter. A complete side point as well, but I got confused over who was supposed to be like David Brent at first, since the owner sounds exactly like Ricky Gervais.

[AvfcRigo82]

On 10/04/2020 at 22:41, Chindie said:

**** hell the January window episode. That's definitely been mirrored in Villa boardrooms in recent years. Desperately overpaying for a striker in a streak. It's Hogan all over. But still... ****. A player everyone was saying is worth sub £1.5m and they end up panicking and paying £3m rising to £4m. Absolutely crazy.

And of course he couldn't score to save his life. Of course 

I have some sympathy for the owner with the Maja situation as well. They've been **** by an agent feathering his nest. Parasites.

I binged on this the other day and watched the whole season in one afternoon.

Series 2 is great. So many twists and you can see why the club was shambolic behind the scenes the way it was.

I appreciate the work ethic and drive by the CEO guy but he had it in for the marketing woman from the word go and treated her like a skivvy. As much as she may have lacked in what was expected of her he was totally out of order in how he handled the situation. Pure humiliation.

As for Maja. Everything was going so so well up until Christmas until the lad got his head turned and then the big problems started.

Would he have stayed with a bigger contract? Who knows. Okay yes we know agents are just greedy bastards but who the hell sanctioned the move to happen in January and said yes to the £1m move? That was a costly error.

Given the delicate position the club where in behind the scenes it would have been more logical to have kept the player and finish the season and allow him to leave for free at the end once promotion had been secured.

Suddenly, someone behind the scenes has said yes to the deal and next thing, the guy is signing for Bordeaux leaving Sunderland in shit street with days to fund a replacement. Again, whoever signed the deal off needs shooting. It was the beginning of their downward curve once that happened.

So they lose their best striker they've had in years for £1m and then go and get their pants pulled down and panic buy £4m on Will Grigg!?  (And did Jack Ross even want him?)

After signing, Grigg doesn't perform well and alienation and blame start to develop and take place. Everyone starts to ask why the manager signed him and for such a high fee!?

- Sad to discover the owner left his missus. She was right in what she said to him in the kitchen about selling up.. but yet ignored her. Now someone has stated in this thread that in the end he's left her for a Lap dancer?? Just sums up everything wrong with that shitty little club and his ownership suitsbility is questionable.

Great documentary but they deserve everything they get.

What is also good is being able to relate to alot of the club matters in how they mirror some of the shit storms we have witnessed here over the years.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by AvfcRigo82

[Zatman]

Grigg has 5 goals in 38 games for them

[AvfcRigo82]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Grigg has 5 goals in 38 games for them

I wonder if the £3m rising to £4m was for goals scored and not for appearances made. 

 

[Sam-AVFC]

William Storey of fake energy drink 'fame' is now claiming he's trying to buy them.

I seriously wouldn't wish this guy on anyone as I can only see it ending in a club being liquidated.

If the bid is real and he passes the 'fit & proper' test it will show how farcical it is.

[useless]

He's on twitter today telling their fans that he and his investors will immediately spend £50m on players and staff if he takes over. If he's just using Sunderland to get publicity you'd think they would have said something by now.

Edited July 25, 2020 by useless

[VillaChris]

You don't really need to spend 50m to get out of league one. Sunderland in last 10 years produced Pickford and Jordan Henderson, two regular England starters so decent youth academy although not sure what's happened to it in recent times. Pretty sure they were playing a 16 year old at start of last season but not sure what happened to him.

Phil Parkinson is a pretty good manager at league one level although his football is pretty boring. Sunderland were actually on a decent run when season was stopped.

Sunderland will get back up eventually. Once they're back out of league 1 they'll probably challenge for premier league return quite soon. That sort of club.

League one is going to be pretty stacked next season. Portsmouth, Sunderland, Ipswich and joined by Hull and Charlton although can't see either challenging for promotion given the state they're both in.