PaulC Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 It's cost us one game in how many seasons of him playing? Scapegoat. More than one I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 9, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) It's cost us one game in how many seasons of him playing? Scapegoat. More than one I think I'd like to hear your examples as I genuinely don't remember any. In fact, I don't think there's many games beyond the City game that Guzan has cost us in full stop. Let alone isolated to his kicking. Edited August 9, 2015 by Stevo985 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 It's cost us one game in how many seasons of him playing? Scapegoat. More than one I think I'd like to hear your examples as I genuinely don't remember any. In fact, I don't think there's many games beyond the City game that Guzan has cost us in full stop. Let alone isolated to his kicking. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 9, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2015 Like I've said before, once VT decides they don't like a keeper, it's hard for them to recover. Everything becomes their fault. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 If Guzan doesn't make that mistake against City, we're not even having this discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 9, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2015 The polarising effect of a conversation of this nature means it's hard to be in the middle ground. I like Guzan. He's plenty good enough to be our keeper. But there is plenty better out there and I remember a few times in the past few seasons thinking he cost us. No I can't remember the specifics. I just remember cursing him on more than one occasion. That doesn't mean I want him replaced. I suspect all keepers get cursed. But this current 'he never does' versus 'he always does' ... for me neither side is right there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 9, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2015 The polarising effect of a conversation of this nature means it's hard to be in the middle ground. I like Guzan. He's plenty good enough to be our keeper. But there is plenty better out there and I remember a few times in the past few seasons thinking he cost us. No I can't remember the specifics. I just remember cursing him on more than one occasion. That doesn't mean I want him replaced. I suspect all keepers get cursed. But this current 'he never does' versus 'he always does' ... for me neither side is right there. I don't think anybody is saying he never does. Just that it's rare. Can you really remember thinking often that Guzan "cost" us the game. As in it was his fault that we lost? Of course there are times when he may have done better. That happens with every keeper. But the discussion is about him costing us games. I think that's very very rare.And the claim that his kicking has cost us a game on more than one occasion is a claim that I genuinely think is just plain untrue. Although I'd happily be proved wrong with an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 9, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2015 I remember goals going in where I thought 'he should/could have saved that' or worse, 'Given would've saved that'. But again I'm not asking for him to be replaced. But he carries his fair share for the past few seasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonno_2004 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Felt a bit sorry for Guzan last season as his form did dip after keeping us in a lot of games over the past couple of years. Shot stopping/positioning looked back up to its best yesterday although his kicking was dreadful - luckily it's something he should be making a real effort to work on in training everyday to make up for the fact he isn't as natural as some keepers with the ball at his feet. That said, if that kick at the end had deflected off the striker in a more unfortunate way and they'd equalised I think we'd be looking for a new keeper next week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 It's cost us one game in how many seasons of him playing? Scapegoat. No scapegoating, not at all. Besides, the after effects of his kicking are incredibly hard to measure. Like how much possession do we succeed due to his abysmal kicking on a game by game basis? How often has it lead to a goal within say, 3/4 phases of play? It's not something that can be measured by such basic statistics. It's not *just* his kicking either. He is completely incapable of opening his body up and looking for attacking options. From the hand he's good, but he cannot be trusted as an out ball. This immediately puts the defence under undue pressure. They will then make mistakes themselves. That was, admittedly, the worst I've ever seen him kicking wise so perhaps it is an anomaly. Maybe he's a bit "cold" with a new defence in front of him and it is his first start for the club since City away. I just hope he can improve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 9, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2015 He did well yesterday. Wasn't overly worked by any stretch but that ain't his fault. Everything he was asked to do he did fine. People are talking about how Bournemouth did will and had so much of the ball yet our defence got the MOTM, most of the bonus points and were actually rarely in serious danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) If Guzan doesn't make that mistake against City, we're not even having this discussion. It's almost like there was absolutely no debate over Guzan until that game. Edited August 9, 2015 by Isa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poitier Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 While he saves everything that comes at him, it seems a little churlish to criticise him overly for three bad kicks in a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I love Guzan, but his kicking has gone to pot. Not sure what the issue is as it never used to be a problem. Confident he can sort it out. With his hands, he is excellent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 He did well yesterday. Wasn't overly worked by any stretch but that ain't his fault. Everything he was asked to do he did fine. People are talking about how Bournemouth did will and had so much of the ball yet our defence got the MOTM, most of the bonus points and were actually rarely in serious danger. Distribution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) If some of the players we have had over the years had of come under the same scrutiny that this guy has .....we wouldn't be where we are today, just coming off 4 years of fighting relegation....To pick him up for a few errors (albeit the one at City was poor) is a bit rich coming from us, with some of the consistently poor outfield players we have had. I'm a bit unsure how I feel about him as our goal keeper...got more presence than Given, better than Steer and Bunn , a tad on the small side at 6ft in this modern game. I am sure of his persona, a top guy, good fella, and very passionate about Villa. I too think there are better out there and I also think its one of the most important positions particularly when it comes to improving the teams consistency....albeit for the older fans Gary Sprake was a bit iffy, but the players he had in front of him in the great Leeds team compensated......I seem to recall one nick named the "flying pig" in Liverpools halcyon days before Grobelaar.....Tommy Lawrence I think it was? With limited funds I think we could spend our money on more pressing positions and I know that sounds a bit contradictory, but I think he is ok for now. Edited August 9, 2015 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Does a kicking error have to be as bad as the man city one and lead directly to a goal for this particular issue to be highlighted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbonus Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 radio 5 today on ian wrights phone in show, an Arsenal fan said Peter Cech was too old and they should go for Guzan... As far as the Man City mistake, I blame Lambert. He was the prat who had been training them all year to pass it sideways and back. It was only a matter of time before someone put the defenders under pressure meaning the keeper had to deal with it. Yes, he should have done better, but what sort of idiot trains players to play to the weakness of a player, i.e. Guzans kicking? And yes I know Lambert had gone, but that had been the coaching all year and was ingrained by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Kendrick's Dentist Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 If some of the players we have had over the years had of come under the same scrutiny that this guy has .....we wouldn't be where we are today, just coming off 4 years of fighting relegation....To pick him up for a few errors (albeit the one at City was poor) is a bit rich coming from us, with some of the consistently poor outfield players we have had. I'm a bit unsure how I feel about him as our goal keeper...got more presence than Given, better than Steer and Bunn , a tad on the small side at 6ft in this modern game. I am sure of his persona, a top guy, good fella, and very passionate about Villa. I too think there are better out there and I also think its one of the most important positions particularly when it comes to improving the teams consistency....albeit for the older fans Gary Sprake was a bit iffy, but the players he had in front of him in the great Leeds team compensated......I seem to recall one nick named the "flying pig" in Liverpools halcyon days before Grobelaar.....Tommy Lawrence I think it was? With limited funds I think we could spend our money on more pressing positions and I know that sounds a bit contradictory, but I think he is ok for now. Pretty sure he's well over 6 foot. IMO Brad was far too good for a relegation-threatened side until last season when his performances definitely did dip. I still think he's comfortably good enough to be between the sticks for us, even if we aspire to the lofty heights of mid-table. In fact, there are quite a few positions I would point to as being in greater need of bolstering than GK. Just sort the fecking kicking out Brad, it's only in the last year it's gone to shite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Guzan is 6'4 FFS. How anyone can mistake him for being just 6'0 is frankly bizarre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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