The RJW63 Official Jack Grealish Appreciation Thread

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, Grumpy_Lion said:

I'm hoping with our new midfield this will allow him more time to push on and do what he does best.

You make a good point here.

You look at our attacking talent - Kodjia, Ayew, McCormack, Adomah, Grealish and more recently Gabby and that is as good as any in the league yet we average a goal a game and don't create many chances.

A big part of that has been down to the midfield and their failure to link up with the attacking players, to play quick one two's, to play decent through balls, and their tendency to slow play down.

With the likes of Lansbury and hopefully Houriane pulling the strings we will start to see the best of the likes of Grealish and Ayew and even more from Adomah and Kodjia.

Edited January 24, 2017 by markavfc40

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, VillaCas said:

This is becoming a circular argument - As you well know I never said that each pass for a goal needs to be "something special".  This whole thing started with someone (maybe you) excusing Grealish's poor performance on Saturday by saying he created a goal with a pass of pinpoint accuracy and perfect weight - I responded that it was a simple pass that anyone could deliver - I guarantee that if Westwood had delivered the pass it wouldn't have generated any discussion at all

I remember we had a similar discussion a couple of months back when you predicted that Grealish's time had come and that he had finally hit his stride and great things would happen. Grealish has huge potential but he is not realising it - when he strings half a dozen good performaces together then I will be the first to come on here and praise him but at the moment I'm massively disappointed with his effort, attitude and output - if others think differently that's their perogative.

Quite a lot of people have criticised his performance at the weekend. I don't think anyone has excused or praised it. 

But, poor performance or not, he did create a goal. As Stevo said, that's not been put forward as an excuse that was to point out that he still did do something.

You've then gone to extreme lengths to not only down play it but actually criticise the pass. 

And your point about Westwood is rubbish. He didn't play a pass like that and got lots of praise for his performance. So clearly would have been praised if he'd created a goal. 

Edited January 24, 2017 by DCJonah

[VillaCas]

9 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Quite a lot of people have criticised his performance at the weekend. I don't think anyone has excused or praised it. 

But, poor performance or not, he did create a goal. As Stevo said, that's not been put forward as an excuse that was to point out that he still did do something.

You've then gone to extreme lengths to not only down play it but actually criticise the pass. 

And your point about Westwood is rubbish. He didn't play a pass like that and got lots of praise for his performance. So clearly would have been praised if he'd created a goal. 

I didn't criticise the pass, I said there was nothing special about it. If Westwood had made the exact same pass I guarantee that nobody would have commented on the 'pinpoint accuracy and perfect weight'

A good start to the season but ultimately the stats say it all for me one solitary tackle and one 'key pass' in 21 appearances. Come back to me when he's delivered half a dozen good performances in a row and I'll join you in singing his praises 

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

I didn't criticise the pass, I said there was nothing special about it. If Westwood had made the exact same pass I guarantee that nobody would have commented on the 'pinpoint accuracy and perfect weight'

A good start to the season but ultimately the stats say it all for me one solitary tackle and one 'key pass' in 21 appearances. Come back to me when he's delivered half a dozen good performances in a row and I'll join you in singing his praises 

Wow. 

No one is currently singing his praises. 

And you did criticise the pass. You said it was a hopeful hit forward and that Gabby did well to make something from it. 

[VillaCas]

1 hour ago, handsworthvilla said:

I do think there is bias on both sides of the argument, and I witnessed it at VP on Saturday. Personally I am desperate to see a local lad who loves the club do well, and perhaps that makes  me see some of his performances through rose-tinted glasses. However, I still think he is a superb talent and when neutral commentators/pundits who have no reason to favour him consistently comment on how graceful his movement and touch is it makes me think that perhaps it is not just Villa fan bias. I saw bias on the other side of the coin at VP on Saturday, with several fans a few rows behind me lamenting him every time he did not make a killer pass or contribution, and it did make me wonder if they would be so critical if it was a 21 year old lad we had just signed from the continent with no allegiance to VP and without the huge expectations on his shoulders. 

I actually think the goals are going to be a bonus rather than a defining measure of his success over the next few years. I see his position ultimately being similar the role that Santi Cazorla plays at Arsenal (ie; quickly turns passive possession in to an attacking movement by shifting the ball past a player and creating an opportunity for someone else to assist/score). So yes whilst I do agree he can and should do more in terms of goals, I'm not going to necessarily hold that against him just yet as I see his role as creator and being able to transition the play from defence/midfield to attack very quickly. 

And to your point on tackling, yes I'd agree that is a pretty poor stat for any midfielder ... but again, are we really going to judge Jack Grealish by tackling? Is that what he is in there to do? He's never going to be putting in Kante type performances so that's a stat I'd get used to and accept its not his game. 

And yes I'd probably agree re: his position when Hourihane comes in. Considering our current predicament, I'd imagine a midfield 3 of Jedinak, Lansbury & Hourihane would be our best chance of success right now. If Grealish is in the team from the start I'd imagine it would be from the left, where I'd argue he is more likely to be effective than Bacuna/Ayew. 

 

 

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative but if we are not judging him on goals (or lack of) and don't expect him to tackle he needs to be doing a shed load more in creating things - he has one assist in 21 games. 

Regarding your point on neutral com mentors singing his praises - I'm not surprised - he is amazingly comfortable on the ball and I've seen few better at wriggling out of tight situations BUT he goes on to deliver next to nothing

Ive just reread Moneyball and Grealish is the exact opposite of the ethos that that book promotes - in the old days coaches look for exactly the things you describe, elegance, graceful movement, close control but in this day and age (whilst those attributes are still highly valued) they need to be translated into end product. Critics will say that football is not about stats but I'm afraid the right stats are crucially important and Grealish's are very ordinary. 

[VillaCas]

8 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Wow. 

No one is currently singing his praises. 

And you did criticise the pass. You said it was a hopeful hit forward and that Gabby did well to make something from it. 

Do you think that pass was anything more than ordinary? I don't know anything about you but I'd back you to be able to deliver it 8/10 times!

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

Do you think that pass was anything more than ordinary? I don't know anything about you but I'd back you to be able to deliver it 8/10 times!

It was a good pass and it created a goal. 

That's all.

 

[Stevo985]

29 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

 

A good start to the season but ultimately the stats say it all for me one solitary tackle and one 'key pass' in 21 appearances. Come back to me when he's delivered half a dozen good performances in a row and I'll join you in singing his praises 

but nobody is singing his praises  

You're arguing with yourself

[handsworthvilla]

37 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative but if we are not judging him on goals (or lack of) and don't expect him to tackle he needs to be doing a shed load more in creating things - he has one assist in 21 games. 

Regarding your point on neutral com mentors singing his praises - I'm not surprised - he is amazingly comfortable on the ball and I've seen few better at wriggling out of tight situations BUT he goes on to deliver next to nothing

Ive just reread Moneyball and Grealish is the exact opposite of the ethos that that book promotes - in the old days coaches look for exactly the things you describe, elegance, graceful movement, close control but in this day and age (whilst those attributes are still highly valued) they need to be translated into end product. Critics will say that football is not about stats but I'm afraid the right stats are crucially important and Grealish's are very ordinary. 

I agree to an extent, and I do think assists will eventually be what Jack is judged on. He needs to improve them stats. 

However, what I would say is that there is also a role in a team for a creative player who doesn't necessarily make the killer pass for the assist, but who is responsible for making quick passes / turns of pace which change passive possession in to attack. For example, Modric / Cazorla. I doubt either wrack up great figures in terms of assists but both are creative players with quick feet who make things happen, which is the mould I see Jack in. 

So, yes I agree his stats need to improve, but my basic and initial point was that to say he has contributed nothing of note is ridiculous hyperbole (although I know you didn't actually make that point, it was someone else!)

[dont_do_it_doug.]

1 hour ago, VillaCas said:

I didn't criticise the pass, I said there was nothing special about it. If Westwood had made the exact same pass I guarantee that nobody would have commented on the 'pinpoint accuracy and perfect weight'

When has he ever done that? 

[Dodgyknees]

I feel that Bjarnason coming in will force Grealish to push himself on. He hasn't contributed enough, and if Bjarnason can come in and offer a few assists and goals, as well as running like a lion, Grealish is going to have to improve to get back in.

[DCJonah]

Have to say I'm excited to see what Jack can do with these better players around him. 

This club is moving forward, if he doesn't move with it then his career could really start to stall 

Lots of pressure but I'm confident that he's up for it. 

[theboyangel]

Big test for Grealish to establish himself in this team now.

He could make the perfect link man between midfield and attack, playing in the 10 position.

However, he has to knuckle down and work for it - so far this season, we've only seen shades of his potential.

[villa4europe]

3 hours ago, DK82 said:

I feel that Bjarnason coming in will force Grealish to push himself on. He hasn't contributed enough, and if Bjarnason can come in and offer a few assists and goals, as well as running like a lion, Grealish is going to have to improve to get back in.

to be fair if bjarnason and hourihane are both willing to run past him when he has the ball then that should suit him, if we play like we did last saturday every week he'll have no excuses, so if he plays like he did last saturday then that'll be him out the team

i dont think bjarnason running round like a dog with 2 dicks should mean that jack should be expected to do the same

[Demitri_C]

Big test for him now no more excuses. With these new signings if he still doesn't consistently perform he won't be playing. 

[Kingman]

Wanted by Boro!!!!!!!!!!!

[TreeVillan]

Link to article stating Boro are after Jack.

Aston Villa star Jack Grealish has tonight been linked with a shock departure from Villa Park during the current transfer window.

The Daily Mail report that the Solihull-born 21-year-old is wanted by Premier League Middlesbrough should they let Gaston Ramirez join Leicester City.

The Foxes have seen a £12million offer rejected for Ramirez with Boro seeking nearer to £15m.

And Aitor Karanka is reportedly eyeing the Villa man should a move for PSG forward Jese Rodriguez fail.

[villianusa]

I hope he stays but not too worried if he leaves. I'm not sure if he has the mental capacity to succeed at the highest level.

[Dante_Lockhart]

Are Boro our feeder team?

[Alakagom]

Honestly if he wants to reach his potential, I think he needs to leave. I think he's too comfortable around Villa, he needs change of environment and more pressure.