Demitri_C Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 21 minutes ago, KSV said: This. He doesnt pass.. players know this so they go full blooded on him. He needs to stay out of the starting line up if we are to win games. Massive liability. This for me. Doesn't get the ball forward quick enough and makes himself easy time target and foul. He isn't as good as he thinks he is in my eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted January 23, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2017 19 hours ago, VillaCas said: To be honest he hardly 'created' a goal - he clipped a hopeful ball forward and Flabby surprising did well to make something of it and then squared it to Adomah to score. Hardly 'creating' a goal. No offence, but this reads like somebody who has maybe read the match report and interpreted the goal in their own way. I can't honestly believe someone who has actually seen that goal would describe it like that. Just the phrase "squared it to Adomah to score" is enough to be honest 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 2 hours ago, VillaCas said: A pinpoint pass??? hardly! Nothing special for me at all - not credited by the main stats sites either. 90 first class games with roughly a goal every 20 and an assist less than once in ten. A peripheral figure at best who will get less and less game time as new recruits arrive To be honest, I find it hard to believe you had even seen the goal in question when you made your first post. Something about Gabby 'squaring the ball to Adomah' - which didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLillis Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Jack is an easy player to handle with his present attitude. To stop Villas momentum all teams need to do is touch him and he will then go down. The risk is minimal to the opposition (unless this touch is in the penalty area or just outside) as refs are highly unlikely to do anything other than award a free kick which is relatively easier to defend against than quick Villa break... He should take a look at his team mate Albert Adomah and the determination he shows when breaking away with the ball. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 4 hours ago, bobzy said: It's about as accurate a through ball as you can get - perfect weight on it too. Absolutely madness to call it "a hopeful ball forward". Please watch it again: I did watch again and I genuinely don't think it was anything special at all - any professional should surely be able to replicate such a straightforward pass. It's telling for me that we are debating something so ordinary - if Grealish was fulfilling the potential he undoubtedly posseses then there should be realms of footage of game changing impact. I truly hope that he becomes the player that some here seem to beleive he already is but I very much doubt it. I've seen the same discussions on Gardner's thread and also in the past on Bannan's (yes I know, Championship team of the year, whoopy-dee-do!) Time will tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Hasn't done anything of note this season and can't hold down a place in a mid-table championship team. The excuses are running out for him to be honest. If he's going to be a premier league footballer then he needs to start showing it soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 hour ago, VillaCas said: I did watch again and I genuinely don't think it was anything special at all - any professional should surely be able to replicate such a straightforward pass. It's telling for me that we are debating something so ordinary - if Grealish was fulfilling the potential he undoubtedly posseses then there should be realms of footage of game changing impact. No-one at any point has said it was "anything special" - it was just a lovely through ball. In fact, everyone is saying he needs to do more in the game? We're not even debating it to be fair. You're just entirely wrong that it was a "hopeful ball forward". Laughable that you actually think that (or that Gabby "squared the ball" for Adomah). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troon_villan Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Crazy that this thread is almost 7 (seven) years old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 6 hours ago, VillaCas said: I did watch again and I genuinely don't think it was anything special at all - any professional should surely be able to replicate such a straightforward pass. It's telling for me that we are debating something so ordinary - if Grealish was fulfilling the potential he undoubtedly posseses then there should be realms of footage of game changing impact. I truly hope that he becomes the player that some here seem to beleive he already is but I very much doubt it. I've seen the same discussions on Gardner's thread and also in the past on Bannan's (yes I know, Championship team of the year, whoopy-dee-do!) Time will tell Hate it when people say any professional should do this.....yes maybe they should, but the simple fact is for too long our players haven't been doing stuff like this. So when they do why shouldn't we praise them. No one is saying Grealish had a good game or is our saving grace, they are just saying it was a good pass to set up a goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 13 hours ago, mikeyp102 said: Hate it when people say any professional should do this.....yes maybe they should, but the simple fact is for too long our players haven't been doing stuff like this. So when they do why shouldn't we praise them. No one is saying Grealish had a good game or is our saving grace, they are just saying it was a good pass to set up a goal So Grealish makes a straightforward pass to another player and we should praise him? If this is the case then we're setting a really low bar. Grealish is a long long way from fulfilling his 'potential' - much much more should be demanded of him and every Villa player. Grealish didnt have a good game, he had a really poor game - one of a string of very average performances. Once Hourihane arrives and Ayew and Kodija are back, Grealish's apperances will be few and far between and he will need to do more to impress Bruce than to pass the ball accurately over 15 yards to another player once in a blue moon. Apologise and excuse his performances all you like but for me he is a million miles from the type of performances needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 24, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 24, 2017 Lovely square ball from gabby for the assist though 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Lovely square ball from gabby for the assist though As I say, joke all you like but if you think one straightforward pass every half dozen games is good enough then we will be a championship side for a long time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 24, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 minute ago, VillaCas said: As I say, joke all you like but if you think one straightforward pass every half dozen games is good enough then we will be a championship side for a long time to come. I don't think that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 22 hours ago, VillaCas said: I did watch again and I genuinely don't think it was anything special at all - any professional should surely be able to replicate such a straightforward pass. It's telling for me that we are debating something so ordinary - if Grealish was fulfilling the potential he undoubtedly posseses then there should be realms of footage of game changing impact. I truly hope that he becomes the player that some here seem to beleive he already is but I very much doubt it. I've seen the same discussions on Gardner's thread and also in the past on Bannan's (yes I know, Championship team of the year, whoopy-dee-do!) Time will tell Why does it have to be something special? Creating a goal with a simple pass or an extravagant backheel doesn't get you extra points. He made a good pass and we scored. What's the issue with that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsworthvilla Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 22 hours ago, villa89 said: Hasn't done anything of note this season That's just not true though, is it? You might not rate him, but to say he has not done ANYTHING of note this season is just hyperbole. The 3 goals, 1 assist and 2 MOTM demonstrate that, without even going in to the subjective detail about his overall contribution outside of mere stats. Yes he can (and will IMO) do better, but to say he hasn't done anything just stinks of a bias against him, for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy_Lion Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 He looked a bit sluggish to me against Preston, didn't seem his usual self. I'm hoping with our new midfield this will allow him more time to push on and do what he does best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 49 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Why does it have to be something special? Creating a goal with a simple pass or an extravagant backheel doesn't get you extra points. He made a good pass and we scored. What's the issue with that? This is becoming a circular argument - As you well know I never said that each pass for a goal needs to be "something special". This whole thing started with someone (maybe you) excusing Grealish's poor performance on Saturday by saying he created a goal with a pass of pinpoint accuracy and perfect weight - I responded that it was a simple pass that anyone could deliver - I guarantee that if Westwood had delivered the pass it wouldn't have generated any discussion at all I remember we had a similar discussion a couple of months back when you predicted that Grealish's time had come and that he had finally hit his stride and great things would happen. Grealish has huge potential but he is not realising it - when he strings half a dozen good performaces together then I will be the first to come on here and praise him but at the moment I'm massively disappointed with his effort, attitude and output - if others think differently that's their perogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 49 minutes ago, handsworthvilla said: That's just not true though, is it? You might not rate him, but to say he has not done ANYTHING of note this season is just hyperbole. The 3 goals, 1 assist and 2 MOTM demonstrate that, without even going in to the subjective detail about his overall contribution outside of mere stats. Yes he can (and will IMO) do better, but to say he hasn't done anything just stinks of a bias against him, for whatever reason. If there is any bias it's in favour of him, not against him. All Villa fans should want him to succeed and if he starts to do the business they will get behind him. a few are even singing Gabby's praises and if ever there was a case for bias..... 3 goals would be acceptable from midfield (and one of those was a belter) if he was contributing elsewhere but there is so little else to his game that for me he is too often a luxury we cannot afford. He had a decent start and scored 2 in 5 and it looked like things might take off but now its 1 in the last 17 games and he seems to be regressing. His stats showing his contribution elsewhere, 1 key pass, 1 assist and 1 tackle in 21 appearances are just not good enough for me. The guy who said he's not doing anything was exaggerating somewhat but you can surely see where he's coming from? A midfielder who makes (less than) one tackle every 20 games is not going to get you out the Championship To try and move the discussion on a little, should we be lucky enough to sign Hourihane and say Akbom where do you see Grealish fitting in? I see him on the bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 24, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) 46 minutes ago, VillaCas said: This is becoming a circular argument - As you well know I never said that each pass for a goal needs to be "something special". This whole thing started with someone (maybe you) excusing Grealish's poor performance on Saturday by saying he created a goal with a pass of pinpoint accuracy and perfect weight - I responded that it was a simple pass that anyone could deliver - I guarantee that if Westwood had delivered the pass it wouldn't have generated any discussion at all No. The exchange started because DCJ stated that he created a goal. In response to someone saying Grealish was "all show and no substance". That's not excusing his performance, it's just pointing out that, no matter how bad you or anyone else thinks he played, he still created a goal. The debate over the quality of the pass started with you saying Jack "clipped a hopeful ball forward". Which is ridiculously harsh, imo of course. The whole argument that people complimenting the pass are excusing Jack's lack of consistent performances is in your head. Nobody has said that. Edited January 24, 2017 by Stevo985 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsworthvilla Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 20 minutes ago, VillaCas said: If there is any bias it's in favour of him, not against him. All Villa fans should want him to succeed and if he starts to do the business they will get behind him. a few are even singing Gabby's praises and if ever there was a case for bias..... 3 goals would be acceptable from midfield (and one of those was a belter) if he was contributing elsewhere but there is so little else to his game that for me he is too often a luxury we cannot afford. He had a decent start and scored 2 in 5 and it looked like things might take off but now its 1 in the last 17 games and he seems to be regressing. His stats showing his contribution elsewhere, 1 key pass, 1 assist and 1 tackle in 21 appearances are just not good enough for me. The guy who said he's not doing anything was exaggerating somewhat but you can surely see where he's coming from? A midfielder who makes (less than) one tackle every 20 games is not going to get you out the Championship To try and move the discussion on a little, should we be lucky enough to sign Hourihane and say Akbom where do you see Grealish fitting in? I see him on the bench I do think there is bias on both sides of the argument, and I witnessed it at VP on Saturday. Personally I am desperate to see a local lad who loves the club do well, and perhaps that makes me see some of his performances through rose-tinted glasses. However, I still think he is a superb talent and when neutral commentators/pundits who have no reason to favour him consistently comment on how graceful his movement and touch is it makes me think that perhaps it is not just Villa fan bias. I saw bias on the other side of the coin at VP on Saturday, with several fans a few rows behind me lamenting him every time he did not make a killer pass or contribution, and it did make me wonder if they would be so critical if it was a 21 year old lad we had just signed from the continent with no allegiance to VP and without the huge expectations on his shoulders. I actually think the goals are going to be a bonus rather than a defining measure of his success over the next few years. I see his position ultimately being similar the role that Santi Cazorla plays at Arsenal (ie; quickly turns passive possession in to an attacking movement by shifting the ball past a player and creating an opportunity for someone else to assist/score). So yes whilst I do agree he can and should do more in terms of goals, I'm not going to necessarily hold that against him just yet as I see his role as creator and being able to transition the play from defence/midfield to attack very quickly. And to your point on tackling, yes I'd agree that is a pretty poor stat for any midfielder ... but again, are we really going to judge Jack Grealish by tackling? Is that what he is in there to do? He's never going to be putting in Kante type performances so that's a stat I'd get used to and accept its not his game. And yes I'd probably agree re: his position when Hourihane comes in. Considering our current predicament, I'd imagine a midfield 3 of Jedinak, Lansbury & Hourihane would be our best chance of success right now. If Grealish is in the team from the start I'd imagine it would be from the left, where I'd argue he is more likely to be effective than Bacuna/Ayew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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