TRO Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 On 22/09/2022 at 11:14, RichiBoi11 said: I know a few on here have already pointed this out multiple times, but the lack of even attempting to play 4231 is truly baffling. The large majority of our squad are equipped in a way that this would play to their biggest strengths. It would allow Mings and Konsa more protection and less pressure to challenge for everything. It would give the fullbacks more respite as they only need to push forward when play is on their side (Young especially would benefit from this when Cash is out). The large majority of our central midfielders are perfect to play in that two, Kamara, Luiz, Dendoncker, EVEN the likes of Nakamba could be effective next to a more expansive deep lying playmaker. The attacking three would allow Buendia, Countinho and Bailey all to get more minutes, but you still have options as Ramsey can play in most of those roles too and be an asset with his driving runs. Watkins would have more support and it could even potentially allow enough attacking play for Ings to play up top alone without being a passenger. I can only see one reason this hasn't been tried. There's nowhere to fit McGinn in to that system. Maybe a new manager would see sense and at least try this, but as long as McGinn is captain and undroppable it wouldn't work. (By the way I am in no way anti McGinn, I just think he's the weakest link if we switch to the most logical formation that benefits the rest of the squad) I agree with the 4-2-3-1 but managers do what managers do, its their job on the line.....I would hope the opposition, would influence, how we set up.......but its down to the players to deliver. I don't remember, from the past, managers being criticised as much about formations......IIRC didn't Dean play 4-3-3, before he settled on 4-2-3-1 and that didn't end well either did it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 50 minutes ago, TRO said: I agree with the 4-2-3-1 but managers do what managers do, its their job on the line.....I would hope the opposition, would influence, how we set up.......but its down to the players to deliver. I don't remember, from the past, managers being criticised as much about formations......IIRC didn't Dean play 4-3-3, before he settled on 4-2-3-1 and that didn't end well either did it? If Dean had stuck with the 4-2-3-1 instead of trying to crowbar Ollie and Ings into a team and a 3-5-2 then it might have ended better for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 18 hours ago, sparrow1988 said: If Dean had stuck with the 4-2-3-1 instead of trying to crowbar Ollie and Ings into a team and a 3-5-2 then it might have ended better for him. Didn’t he change to the 3-5-2 after a poor run of results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May-Z Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Now, clearly Brighton have been working on this style for a while, but if you watch 0.11s - 0.30s of this clip before their third goal yesterday, I think it highlights how important two central midfielders are to being able to play quickly and sharply from the back. Every player can move the ball quickly because there is someone in support, 5-10 yards away. The passes are relatively 'safe' but work well at moving the opposition and create a chance to move forward. In contrast, in that situation, you see our CBs trying to find only Kamara who has to do a lot of work to progress the ball, or can just knock it back. Alternatively, we'd go side-to-side then eventually out to a full back, or hit it long. Brighton, being able to create that 'square' of four players to pass around, are much better at keeping the ball than when we use our 'triangle' with only Mings, Konsa, and Kamara. I imagine their players feel much more confident because of knowing where a pass can go, rather than our's who take two clicks to work it out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 20 hours ago, nepal_villan said: Didn’t he change to the 3-5-2 after a poor run of results? We didnt have any fit wide men so had to change to 3 at the back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 1 hour ago, May-Z said: Now, clearly Brighton have been working on this style for a while, but if you watch 0.11s - 0.30s of this clip before their third goal yesterday, I think it highlights how important two central midfielders are to being able to play quickly and sharply from the back. Every player can move the ball quickly because there is someone in support, 5-10 yards away. The passes are relatively 'safe' but work well at moving the opposition and create a chance to move forward. In contrast, in that situation, you see our CBs trying to find only Kamara who has to do a lot of work to progress the ball, or can just knock it back. Alternatively, we'd go side-to-side then eventually out to a full back, or hit it long. Brighton, being able to create that 'square' of four players to pass around, are much better at keeping the ball than when we use our 'triangle' with only Mings, Konsa, and Kamara. I imagine their players feel much more confident because of knowing where a pass can go, rather than our's who take two clicks to work it out. They have two squares quite often yeah. The CBs and the CMs. Then the other side, the attacking side, the CMs and the two 10s. Not out of the question we could play this way at all. They've done it spending and paying less than us as well. But they pick their managers on how good they are at managing, not how good they were as a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Actual live footage of Villa backroom staff masterminding our next scrappy point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, lexicon said: We've scored 6 goals in 8 games and we have Coutinho, Buendia, Bailey and Watkins. Do you honestly think those options aren't up to scratch? Have you only supported Villa for a year or something? ffs man, this is woefully underperforming. Bailey and Watkins are shit. Have YOU only supported us a year? Those two definitely arent up to scratch along with a few others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post romavillan Posted October 3, 2022 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 3, 2022 Just now, R.Bear said: Bailey and Watkins are shit. Have YOU only supported us a year? Those two definitely arent up to scratch along with a few others. Watkins got 16 goals in a PL season very recently in a side that played decent football and made chances. A side that mostly are still at the club but playing toilet. Not the player's fault for me. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zatman Posted October 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 3, 2022 10 minutes ago, R.Bear said: I still keep seeing posts like "with the players we have". What players are these? Our forward line is one of the worst in the league. Watkins can't finish, Ings is anonymous every game. Bailey has been shite, as has Ramsey. McGinn hasnt had a good game in years. We have some decent players but it seems Villa fans are overrating this squad to the extreme. We should be doing better yes but people need to take a moment and look at who we have actually got. I know everyone is going to blame Gerrard of course but this isnt as good a team as people think it is at all, especially with the injuries right now. Watkins has 2 seasons of scoring double figures, i think Kane and Vardy are the only English striker with more goals in last 5 seasons than Ings. Buendia was the 2nd highest chance creator in the league at Norwich behind KDB, Coutinho has about 80 Brazilian caps and cost 140 million not so long ago 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, R.Bear said: Bailey and Watkins are shit. Have YOU only supported us a year? Those two definitely arent up to scratch along with a few others. No, they're not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, romavillan said: Watkins got 16 goals in a PL season very recently in a side that played decent football and made chances. A side that mostly are still at the club but playing toilet. Not the player's fault for me. Oh its not the players fault he misses every one on one that falls his way? Who's fault is it then? What he did two years ago is irrelevant. Plus he scored 14 PL goals, not 16. 5 minutes ago, Zatman said: Watkins has 2 seasons of scoring double figures, i think Kane and Vardy are the only English striker with more goals in last 5 seasons than Ings. Buendia was the 2nd highest chance creator in the league at Norwich behind KDB, Coutinho has about 80 Brazilian caps and cost 140 million not so long ago Nowhere did I mention Coutinho or Buendia in that post. They are both very good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, R.Bear said: Nowhere did I mention Coutinho or Buendia in that post. They are both very good players. Said we have the worst forward line in the league and added Bailey but these 2 are playing the same position as Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 When Augustinsson went off yesterday (we should have had Guilbert on the bench) he was clueless. He has no creative thinking at all, we could have went 3 at the back and Bailey left wing back like Everton last season or even McGinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 35 minutes ago, lexicon said: No, they're not. Ok but they're playing shit, week in week out so that essentially makes them shit does it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 hour ago, R.Bear said: I still keep seeing posts like "with the players we have". What players are these? Our forward line is one of the worst in the league. Watkins can't finish, Ings is anonymous every game. Bailey has been shite, as has Ramsey. McGinn hasnt had a good game in years. We have some decent players but it seems Villa fans are overrating this squad to the extreme. We should be doing better yes but people need to take a moment and look at who we have actually got. I know everyone is going to blame Gerrard of course but this isnt as good a team as people think it is at all, especially with the injuries right now. Spot on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 hour ago, R.Bear said: I still keep seeing posts like "with the players we have". What players are these? Our forward line is one of the worst in the league. Watkins can't finish, Ings is anonymous every game. Bailey has been shite, as has Ramsey. McGinn hasnt had a good game in years. We have some decent players but it seems Villa fans are overrating this squad to the extreme. We should be doing better yes but people need to take a moment and look at who we have actually got. I know everyone is going to blame Gerrard of course but this isnt as good a team as people think it is at all, especially with the injuries right now. You've got 2 problems with that Firstly as posted in a couple of other threads if you look at our average positioning you can see that the front 3 are a mess, same as when we played West ham and there was that embarrassing average position graphic Secondly Gerrard keeps picking this front 3 of coutinho, Watkins and Bailey which keeps showing that it doesn't work... We don't have a coehesive attack or then use tactics that suit any kind of attack, we're a basic kick and rush team - the fact that you can then say that about the midfield 3 as well, doesn't work every week gets picked every week - means that I can blame it on Gerrard... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post lexicon Posted October 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 3, 2022 21 minutes ago, R.Bear said: Ok but they're playing shit, week in week out so that essentially makes them shit does it not? No, it doesn't. They've not magically turned shit overnight - they're victims of a terrible manager who has no clue how to get a tune out of tens of millions of pounds worth of attacking talent. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, lexicon said: No, they're not. Watkins needs dropping. He kills a rediculous amount of attacks. His head obviously isn’t right at the minute. Edited October 3, 2022 by Tayls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) I think @R.Bear makes some good points about the players, but I still think we have enough to be doing better than we are. Fact is, he doesn't utilise the alternatives, subs, or tactics effectively. So whilst we are nowhere near as some people think we should be, we are also nowhere near as bad as some of our displays would suggest either IMO. EDIT: We are definitely more solid though, i'm speaking from an attacking and buildup perspective. Edited October 3, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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