Team shape, tactics and personnel

[TRO]

On 12/09/2022 at 07:32, sne said:

Looks like how you would set up against Liverpool or City 

but when you are "too easy to play against" for lesser sides.....maybe, thats a good start, to regain confidence, from.....We are making it too easy for arguably lesser teams.

if it works against, them, it should work against lessser teams......but I am not saying a strategy has to be set in stone, I am saying it might need to be adjusted to regain our shattered confidence, The Man City game, might be a start.

It is foolish and naive, to just presume we are better than another team, on paper, without proving it......Its that resillient approach, by denying the opposition game initiative that subsequently allows the creative side to flourish, only when the foothold is gained, by us.

To come out gungho, in any sport is foolhardy.

[Made In Aston]

Gerrard's tactics seen to be missing an element. I feel like he was looking the through old Shoot! Magazines for a tactic and came across one. Unfortunately there was a BBQ sauce stain over the bit where it says width should come from wide forwards. Now we are stuck with this incomplete mess. 

[ender4]

On 11/09/2022 at 21:59, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

What we sayin Paul?

It doesn’t matter what players are selected.  The issue is that 2 defenders will end up playing in attack, then 1-2 midfielders will end up having to defend, thereby leaving the whole midfield empty and so the attackers just wander about without the ball except when Mings hoofs it to them.

[Vive_La_Villa]

10 hours ago, ender4 said:

It doesn’t matter what players are selected.  The issue is that 2 defenders will end up playing in attack, then 1-2 midfielders will end up having to defend, thereby leaving the whole midfield empty and so the attackers just wander about without the ball except when Mings hoofs it to them.

Nah, not on Friday.Full backs will be told to hold back.  I think we’ll let Southampton have a lot of the ball and hit them on the break.

[Zatman]

30 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Nah, not on Friday.Full backs will be told to hold back.  I think we’ll let Southampton have a lot of the ball and hit them on the break.

I dont think so, Southampton last season played narrow as well so will be lots of space out wide

[nick76]

42 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Nah, not on Friday.Full backs will be told to hold back.  I think we’ll let Southampton have a lot of the ball and hit them on the break.

Thought Gerrard wanted a possession based football?

Edited September 14, 2022 by nick76

[TRO]

16 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

I'm not sure about the comparison with Liverpool's tactics, don't Salah and whoever starts left occupy their full backs and then move in between the lines, allowing overlaps from Robertson and Trent.  Also they have two players deep in midfield rather than the one left on his own.  I try not to watch Liverpool if I can but that's what I've noticed and other lesser teams have been built similarly.  We are basically asking Gerrard to go and do what Dean did after the lockdown to keep us up, keep us solid and knick wins but we are two more seasons down the line, paying him triple what Dean was on and added a shitload to the wage bill for players who bar Kamara will have no value in a couple of seasons.  Also we have no players left to change the system anyway ffs.

I was referring to the full backs bombing on....we don't have players with the quality of Salah, Nunez or Diaz.

Thats a very jaundiced view of what we need.....its not what we are asking  SG to do, more about what we need.

The debate about where we should be, can rage on.......its more about where we are, and how we improve on it, to get back on track.

 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, MaVilla said:

we werent much better with Beale, the rot had set in half way through Gerrards tenure last season, its not just this season alone.

I think the fact is, the tactics and formation Gerrard wants to play, are sh** regardless of who coaches it, these tactics might work if you are peak Liverpool, but defo not Villa for where we are right now.

Funnily enough, i remember when Klopp first joined Liverpool, when he implemented this tactic they were leaking goals left, right and centre, i remember people questioning his tactic saying "they dont have the players to play like they are, its suicidal", but over a couple of windows they went out and bought a few world class players, which allowed the tactic to work.

We dont have that luxury.

spot on.

[Sulberto21]

The biggest difference in tactics between us and Liverpool is their back line pushes up high and compresses the play , our back line is much deeper so the full backs being high means our midfield is much more exposed. Also Alisson allows this because of his comfort in playing as an outfield player.

If our back line pushed up then it wouldn’t be as easy for teams to play through us. Yes Liverpool have better players but the distances between the defensive line and midfield etc is much larger for us. 

[A'Villan]

Quote

The appointment of Liverpool legend Steven Gerrard in 2018 was a move that brought along a tactical identity that they were lacking before and also an effective recruitment strategy that helped them win the title. By the 2021 campaign, the club had just four players from the 2018-19 squad and the title win shows how effective their recruitment strategy and playing style were. Let’s take a look at the tactics that brought Rangers back to the promised land.

 

Positional Build-up Play

 

 The Glasgow side builds up using their full-backs who drop deep to receive the ball. This is complemented by the positioning of the center midfielders. The center midfielders position themselves such that if the wide forwards of the opposition attempt to press the full-back, the center midfielders find enough space to receive the ball. 

 

Central midfielders’ positioning to pin the opposition wide forwards deep

 

The fullbacks dropping deep also means that they cannot be pressed by the opposition full-backs as such an action would leave their defensive line vulnerable to the Rangers front three.

 

If the ball-near wide forward pushes to press the full-back, the rangers pivot finds himself an angle to receive the ball in space  

 

Rangers mostly use a double pivot in their build-up with their left midfielder Joe Aribo taking a more attacking position on the left side of the pitch with Ryan Kent and the left wide forward shifting inside to operate in the Number 10 position. Thus their shape during build-up resembles a 4-2-3-1 shape. 

 

Automatism in Movements

 

 The Rangers attack made up of Alfredo Morelos, Ryan Kent and Joe Aribo is flexible and their movements have an excellent sense of positional responsibility and automatism that they almost never leave important positions or spaces vacant.

 

Both the pictures above are from the same situation where the Rangers interchange positions and occupy important zones. This spatial occupation and automatism not only makes their progression smooth but also creates automatic counter-movements that the opposition may find hard to defend.

 

The Intention Behind the Overloads

 

 One of the things this Steven Gerrard side is good at is overloading areas of the pitch and using it to their advantage. Whether they are defensive overloads or offensive overloads they make sure they use it to their good. When in possession, they overload with the intention of not just providing more options to the ball carrier but also in case they lose possession, to win the ball back with numbers.

 

The above image shows the numerical superiority that Rangers offers in possession. In the same situation, the overload in possession helps them to press effectively if they do turn over the ball.

 

When out of possession, their zonal defence shifts across to the ball near side and become so narrow that they choke the ball out of the opposition and in doing so when they recover the ball they have enough numbers to keep the ball or hit the opposition on the counter-attack. 

 

The defensive overload they create on flanks helps them counter attack

 

Their rest offence forms a triangle with Alfredo Morelos on top between the opposition center backs and their wide forwards dropping deep and moving slightly inwards. This complements their overloading system as their wide forwards can overload the flanks while screening back passes and also initiate a quick counter-attack

 

Protecting the Centre

 

 Out of possession, Rangers deploy a man-oriented pressing system where they man-mark all possible options to the opposition ball carrier. The front three moves in synchronisation in relation to the ball with the aim of preventing the opposition from playing through the center. The wide forwards prioritise defending the ball from reaching opposition pivot or pivots and instead lures the opposition to pass to the flanks where they can overload and win the ball back.

 

Rangers’ front three prevent the opposition from progressing the ball through the centre.

 

Rangers’ man-oriented pressing scheme causes issues for opposing teams during their build-up

https://breakingthelines.com/tactical-analysis/tactical-analysis-steven-gerrards-rangers/

I wonder if we'll be able to command enough territory and win the contests enough for Stevie G's approach to be implemented to a degree where we can see if it reaps the worthwhile results and performances we are looking for, and need from this squad we have.

I wonder if SG has other assets, qualities, strengths, that he brings along with him that will at least push us to better placing than last season, and from which we can continue to build from, if and when a new manager we decide we want to invest in is hired. I know the tactics and selection issues are apparent, and potentially an issue that becomes more problematic with each week. That's not what I'm discussing with this post though. 

[villabromsgrove]

One of my sons just sent me a message about the possible team line up for Friday night's game against Southampton, compared with the team line up at the beginning of the 2020 season (immediately after we had just avoided relegation by one point)

This Friday ------ 2020          

Martinez ------ Martinez

Young   ------   Cash

Konsa   ------   Konsa

Mings   ------   Mings

Digne   ------   Targett

Kamara ------ Luiz

Luiz.   --------  Hourihane

McGinn ------ McGinn

Ramsey------ Traore

Bailey. ------  Grealish

Watkins------Watkins

Your thoughts guys?

Edited September 14, 2022 by villabromsgrove
Spelling

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, nick76 said:

Thought Gerrard wanted a possession based football?

He probably does. But I reckon at the moment he wants to try and keep his job.  Or then again maybe he doesn’t.

[Vive_La_Villa]

16 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

One of my sons just sent me a message about the possible team line up for Friday night's game against Southampton, compared with the team line up at the beginning of the 2020 season (immediately after we had just avoided relegation by one point)

This Friday ------ 2020          

Martinez ------ Martinez

Young   ------   Cash

Konsa   ------   Konsa

Mings   ------   Mings

Digne   ------   Targett

Kamara ------ Luiz

Luiz.   --------  Hourihane

McGinn ------ McGinn

Ramsey------ Traore

Bailey. ------  Grealish

Watkins------Watkins

Your thoughts guys?

First thing I see is that our transfer business hasn’t been great since we sold Grealish. 
 

edit. Trez started over Traore.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Vive_La_Villa

[villabromsgrove]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

First thing I see is that our transfer business hasn’t been great since we sold Grealish. 

If I were NS or WE I would be asking very pointed questions of Purslow, Lange and Gerrard right now. Team personnel, Tactics and coaching to get the best out of players are all woeful given our owners stated ambitions.

[nick76]

8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

He probably does. But I reckon at the moment he wants to try and keep his job.  Or then again maybe he doesn’t.

I don’t think he thinks it’s his fault, it’s the players as he keeps mentioning. I’m not sure he’s going to change.

[Sulberto21]

1 hour ago, villabromsgrove said:

One of my sons just sent me a message about the possible team line up for Friday night's game against Southampton, compared with the team line up at the beginning of the 2020 season (immediately after we had just avoided relegation by one point)

This Friday ------ 2020          

Martinez ------ Martinez

Young   ------   Cash

Konsa   ------   Konsa

Mings   ------   Mings

Digne   ------   Targett

Kamara ------ Luiz

Luiz.   --------  Hourihane

McGinn ------ McGinn

Ramsey------ Traore

Bailey. ------  Grealish

Watkins------Watkins

Your thoughts guys?

Bring Jack home. Then give the ball to him and he’ll make everything great again.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Sulberto21

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Covid or Flu?

Only we could potentially have two first team keepers out at the same time. As well as Ollie who probably had his best game in months last day out

Edited September 15, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[IrishVilla10]

On 11/09/2022 at 21:59, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

What we sayin Paul?

I really don’t want to see kamara used anywhere other than centrally just in front of the defence.  I like the idea of JJ on the left it makes room for someone more defensively sound in the middle and makes us much more direct. I think chambers has to be ahead of bednarek too. 

[Zatman]

19 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Covid or Flu?

Only we could potentially have two first team keepers out at the same time. As well as Ollie who probably had his best game in months last day out

Is Jed Steer even fit?

[IrishVilla10]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Is Jed Steer even fit?

Neil cutler is