TomC Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 hour ago, HeyAnty said: 3 at the back stinks of desperation. Its a system a poor manager reverts to when they have ran out of ideas and need a quick fix. 3 at the back can work if you have the right players. The way most high-level clubs play it these days, one of the 3 has the freedom to push into midfield and help the attack. Neither Konsa nor Mings would be good at that role, so we'd have to add a 3rd who can pass. I can see Diego Carlos or maybe Chambers doing that. Bednarek, I haven't seen enough to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, HeyAnty said: 3 at the back stinks of desperation. Its a system a poor manager reverts to when they have ran out of ideas and need a quick fix. what do you suggest?....what should be the line up, with this current squad? Solutions are far more helpful, than just saying its crap....or a poor system. we have 2 strikers, who can't score, and he hasn't signed, would it not be fair, to factor that in. Edited October 7, 2022 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 And still Archer isn't getting any minutes... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 hour ago, TomC said: 3 at the back can work if you have the right players. The way most high-level clubs play it these days, one of the 3 has the freedom to push into midfield and help the attack. Neither Konsa nor Mings would be good at that role, so we'd have to add a 3rd who can pass. I can see Diego Carlos or maybe Chambers doing that. Bednarek, I haven't seen enough to know. Early on when we tried 3 at the back before Dean got sacked I thought Mings and Konsa were quite good at bringing the ball into midfield. Problem was after Wolves everyone went into panic mode and it fell to pieces, it became really rigid and easy to play against. I actually think a 3-5-2 is worth a try again under a good coach with the squad we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 7, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 7, 2022 20 minutes ago, TRO said: I can only see this as an uphill struggle, whilst our front men, fail to score consistently, or even look like scoring. We have no alternative, while this is happening, than to shut up shop. I am convinced, he doesn't want to play like this, but until we find players who can find the net, he is snookered.....If he can some how magic up a formula, to get them scoring, I am all ears. The thing with that line is that Gerrard's system doesn't create a lot of chances for the players to finish. With limited scoring opportunities, there's more pressure to score each time, there's a drop in confidence for the strikers because they're not getting many if any chances in most games, and so they're not scoring. It's chicken and egg, really. And prior to this alleged abandonment of a more progressive approach, the team wasn't playing fluid creative football either. It hasn't been doing so for a year or more, now, really, with the odd exception. It's the job of Gerrard and his coaches to both find a system of play that suits the players available and to select the team to make that system work. Gerrard does have an alternative to shutting up shop. He has as many alternative as he wants. The options are basically infinite for systems, for tactics, for selection even. He could give more time to youngsters like Archer, if the criticism is of the current striker selection. He could (and has) tried both 2 up top and one. He could play a winger(s), he could use different midfield combos, he could play 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, he could play wing backs. He's got loads of options. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messi11 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 Suggestions he going 3 at the back! Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted October 7, 2022 Author Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 minute ago, messi11 said: Suggestions he going 3 at the back! Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse. tbf there is absolutely nothing wrong with a back 3, its a really good formation. the problem is i dont trust Gerrard to manage the u12's in terms of formation and tactics. If it were a proper manager/coach making the change to a back 3, i would be more confident. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messi11 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 Just now, MaVilla said: tbf there is absolutely nothing wrong with a back 3, its a really good formation. the problem is i dont trust Gerrard to manage the u12's in terms of formation and tactics. If it were a proper manager/coach making the change to a back 3, i would be more confident. I hate it I hate it I hate it Its boring to watch! Our full backs are not good enough to play it! Smith tried it and It didn't work. I see no reason to try it again. Smith also tried Ings and Watkins and that didnt work. 1 year later Gerrard going back to 3 at the back and Ings and Watkins GET HIM OUT NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 6 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Like Conte? He’s always played that. He didn’t stumble across it after he ran out of ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 Have I missed something about back 3’s? Has Gerrard played this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messi11 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Have I missed something about back 3’s? Has Gerrard played this? Its currently the formation he trying out in training Edited October 7, 2022 by messi11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 33 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: No, we are pre moaning about it based on general discussion, just in case though. Got to cover all escape routes. On to 4 - 4 - 2 next. " We might as well have signed Dyche, an ACTUAL coach who actually knows how to play a proper 4 - 4 - 2 ffs " I remember some criticism about him putting Konsa right back with fans saying he should have gone to a back 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Ah, considering we have 1 fit full back at the moment. I can understand why. Not a fan though. Is that Freddy Guilbert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I remember some criticism about him putting Konsa right back with fans saying he should have gone to a back 3. Nabbed from the Tim thread: However it will confuse the shite of people, it was deemed a masterclass by our ex " Manager " to switch to 3 at the back... which he never started with and doesn't usually play 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 16 hours ago, Didiersix said: So there seems to be talk of Gerrard being open to the prospect of playing three at the back. Birmingham Mail article here Do we think this would make much of a difference? Ultimately the defence has been solid of late but I'm not so sure if this would give us extra impetus/options going forward. Yes the system Gerrard wants to play is a 3 4 2 1 which is a common tactic and is hard to exploit the space out wide behind the full backs/wing backs due to the 3 CBs. It does give up one CM so makes it harder to play possession football. It allows the wing backs to focus more on attack and allows the two CMs to stay closer to each other as often one CB is a ball player and comes into midfield. For this system it requires Gerrard to abandon the slow build up play he has wanted from us (we already have recently). It solves the full back/8 problems by having no 8s really and makes it simpler for the attacking 5 (as wing backs are less exposed). It's the easier switch than 4 2 3 1 as it is really a CM dropping into defence. Luiz/McGinn are the two CMs for the formation and JJ has moved to the right 8 position in recent games so he can come forward into 10 role beside Coutinho. Ash and Cash very suited to wing backs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 Re-shuffling the chairs on the Titanic likely won't solve anything since it's Gerrard that is the Iceberg. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 26 minutes ago, sne said: Re-shuffling the chairs on the Titanic likely won't solve anything since it's Gerrard that is the Iceberg. Yes, Gerrard only really suggested the formation in response to mounting injuries in the full back positions. I think tactical flexibility is how to be successful in the Premier League for the teams outside the top few. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 1 minute ago, CVByrne said: Yes, Gerrard only really suggested the formation in response to mounting injuries in the full back positions. I think tactical flexibility is how to be successful in the Premier League for the teams outside the top few. I even think the 4-3-2-1 formation can work but the instructions to the players must be different and the players selected certainly must be different. Current injury situation obviously limits our options regardless of tactic or lack there off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, sne said: I even think the 4-3-2-1 formation can work but the instructions to the players must be different and the players selected certainly must be different. Current injury situation obviously limits our options regardless of tactic or lack there off I don't believe the formation suits our players and is more ideological from Gerrards part based off how Klopp has had success at Liverpool. I think Deano had the right idea, try be tactically flexible the same way Potter has done at Brighton. I think because Gerrard is so set in his ways on this other teams know exactly how to exploit our weakness behind the full backs. The way people have exploited Liverpool this season. The problems we are now in is that the system cannot be changed easily as keeping the formation but having wide forwards and attacking 8s is a massive change of roles for 6 of the outfield team. Changes to 3 at the back or 2 up top and one 10 is smaller ones he can turn to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 A big issue is also to have the full backs provide the width means slow build up play as you can't transition from defence to attack quickly as there are no forward players out in the channels to play direct balls to as the two narrow 10s are performing the role of blocking the midfield. I really think we need Ings and Watkins up top and Coutinho behind them. Whatever we play behind 2 at the back or 3. I hope we look to evolve again from the style we are playing at the moment which is defensive but adding in the verticality and back to front speed offered when we play two forwards who can run channels. As that means if one is out wide taking a direct ball there is another in the box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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