Summer transfer window 2021

[mikeyp102]

2 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Goal and assist record as CF/ST/SS which ever you want compared to Traore is garbage and King goal tally inflated by penalties. King is shit 

I’ve never understood this, do penalty goals not count? You still have to score them 

[Kiwivillan]

Just now, mikeyp102 said:

I’ve never understood this, do penalty goals not count? You still have to score them 

They don't when people want to downplay AEG goal tally last season

[thabucks]

Do we think Young is our LB cover for next season or are we are still looking at LB options? Just read that Watford have had a bid rejected for Josh Doig from Hibs … Not see him play but read a lot of good things about him and haven’t we been loosely linked before? 

[KenjiOgiwara]

9 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Goal and assist record as CF/ST/SS which ever you want compared to Traore is garbage and King goal tally inflated by penalties. King is shit 

Whatever makes you feel better. 

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

 

Watkins gets injured for the season and we address it in January

It’s ok saying we address it in January but if he gets injured early in the season that’s half the season gone. Plus buying players when you’re desperate in January rarely woks out as we found out two Januarys ago. 
 

It’s a tricky one but in our present preferred set up I’d favour the flexible approach of wide forward/winger. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

12 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

They don't when people want to downplay AEG goal tally last season

Did anyone actually do that? I think what I recall was that people said his goal tally was impressive, but his overall play was rubbish. That's something else entirely. 

Though personally I agree with you. If a player scores 15 goals but 7 of them are penalties, I find the stats less impressive.

The difference is that King offers a lot through his physique, something both Traore and AEG are incapable of.

Edited June 29, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[villa4europe]

1 minute ago, DaveAV1 said:

It’s ok saying we address it in January but if he gets injured early in the season that’s half the season gone. Plus buying players when you’re desperate in January rarely woks out as we found out two Januarys ago. 
 

It’s a tricky one but in our present preferred set up I’d favour the flexible approach of wide forward/winger. 

yeah of course, if he gets injured first week of September after the window closes then its probably too early for Barry, Young maybe even Wes too

but if we bought them we would still have ESR, Alvarez, then grealish, AEG, traore, Wes, Davies

i just dont see Tammy or any other £40m striker fitting with what we have and what i think we're trying to do (Barry) i stand by saying that i dont think he fits, buying him in case watkins gets injured doesnt change that 

 

 

[villa4europe]

7 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Did anyone actually do that? I think what I recall was that people said his goal tally was impressive, but his overall play was rubbish. That's something else entirely. 

this for me

scores goals, great goals, big goals

but his general play over the 90 mins is not great

[macandally]

2 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Never broken a transfer in his life. Read the article. It says JWP best free kick taker in PL after Grealish said Villa no good at free kicks. Fishing for gullible clicks 

I did when it came out, and then your opinion on every page of the JWP thread which for some unknown reason you still feel people are interested in. 

Still does not change the fact YOU DO NOT KNOW but keep stating that this there are no bids.  You are an internet trawler, not Lange, stop stating as if you know something nobody else does. 

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

yeah of course, if he gets injured first week of September after the window closes then its probably too early for Barry, Young maybe even Wes too

but if we bought them we would still have ESR, Alvarez, then grealish, AEG, traore, Wes, Davies

i just dont see Tammy or any other £40m striker fitting with what we have and what i think we're trying to do (Barry) i stand by saying that i dont think he fits, buying him in case watkins gets injured doesnt change that 

 

 

I find this such a bizarre take although I guess you find my view on it bizarre as well

Edited June 29, 2021 by nick76

[HalfTimePost]

Surprised we haven't had much link to CBs. Even just silly season shit links. 

[zak]

32 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

I’ve never understood this, do penalty goals not count? You still have to score them 

Sure, i get this, but if you assume the team who will sign that penalty taking player already have a reliable Penalty taker,  him scoring a load of penalties doesn't really add anything to your team as youd have scored just as many penalties anyway. 

 

[CarryOnVilla]

3 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

Surprised we haven't had much link to CBs. Even just silly season shit links. 

Just biding our time and slapping a £50m+£1 last second bid for Ben white.. just to troll Arse again 

[villa4europe]

12 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I find this such a bizarre take although I guess you find my view on it bizarre as well

Probably

I seriously think what we're trying to do will take us about 2 to 3 more years yet, it's a long long game and we've got to do it right 

Signing a £40m striker this summer is running before you can walk 

2 years down the line in the EL pushing for CL then yeah I could see it but not now (and 2 years down the line I'm hoping Barry means we don't need one) 

The Watkins injury concern I can completely understand but I think we take the risk or shop cheaper or buy a utility player 

[DaveAV1]

26 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

yeah of course, if he gets injured first week of September after the window closes then its probably too early for Barry, Young maybe even Wes too

but if we bought them we would still have ESR, Alvarez, then grealish, AEG, traore, Wes, Davies

i just dont see Tammy or any other £40m striker fitting with what we have and what i think we're trying to do (Barry) i stand by saying that i dont think he fits, buying him in case watkins gets injured doesnt change that 

 

 

We seem to be agreeing. If we get Alvarez and with other quality attacking options I think that negates the need for another out and out CF, which is essentially what Tammy is. 

If we were to buy those players and Tammy then that’s a different story.  Book The Town Hall if we do that! 

[Laughable Chimp]

1 hour ago, mikeyp102 said:

I’ve never understood this, do penalty goals not count? You still have to score them 

Incoming ramble.

They do, but when you're comparing the quality of players, its obviously worth less than the other goals. Like, a player who scores 10 open play goals and a player who scores 10 penalties, its obvious people will rate the first player higher.

Trying to compare the worth of all different types of goals obviously invites subjectivity and is generally difficult so we typically don't do that. An exceptions is penalties, because we generally all agree that the work done in scoring a penalty is really done by the person who wins the penalty(or in some cases just the pure stupidity of the defender). The penalty taker is then expected to finish a chance that he is very much expected to finish.

A similar argument could be made for tap in goals, and people do sometimes discount tap in goals but in this case you could argue that trying to get into the right position for a tap in requires skill and work that not all players possess. To be in place to take a penalty, you just have to be chosen by the coach.

Now, of course you could say that the player chosen to the be the specialist penalty taker also needs to have a certain skill, that is he the best penalty taker on the field. But players penalty taking ability isn't that different in terms of how they contributr to the final amount of goals but only one person reaps the rewards in terms of actual goals scored. 

Out of 11 players on the field, lets say the top penalty taker scores 80% of his penalties while the second one scores 70%. Lets say the team gets 5 penalty chances and they all go to the top penalty taker. He scores 4 of them as expected. 

Now lets say we remove the top penalty taker from the team so that the second player now takes all the penalties. He's also expected to score 4 penalty goals. Either way there is no change in the amount of goals scored. The team practically didn't lose anything by losing his penalty taking ability. All his superior penalty taking ability did was just allow him to take the goals that would ultimately have been scored by someone else had he not been there.

You could even reduce the probability of the second penalty taker scoring to lets say 50 percent which I think is a pretty low bound. He's still expected to only score 1 goal less than the top penalty taker which really isn't much difference.

My point is this. Knowing that the player's superior penalty taking ability does not actually contribute to the team that much if at all considering the availability or someone else to do his job almost as good as him, is it fair to count penalty goals as if its the same worth as open play goals?

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Laughable Chimp

[Dave-R]

1 hour ago, mikeyp102 said:

I’ve never understood this, do penalty goals not count? You still have to score them 

Yeah sure they do but the magic is taken away as soon as another player does the work for the penalty, brought down in the box and it's passed on to the striker usually right?

I think they should change it to whoever went down in the box and got the penalty as that's who takes that penalty.

I do believe all that is why Penalty goals are just less important in people's eyes.

[PaulMcGrath_5]

1 minute ago, Dave-R said:

Yeah sure they do but the magic is taken away as soon as another player does the work for the penalty, brought down in the box and it's passed on to the striker usually right?

I think they should change it to whoever went down in the box and got the penalty as that's who takes that penalty.

I do believe all that is why Penalty goals are just less important in people's eyes.

You’re an absolute mad man, Dave and I love it!

[nick76]

36 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Probably

I seriously think what we're trying to do will take us about 2 to 3 more years yet, it's a long long game and we've got to do it right 

Signing a £40m striker this summer is running before you can walk 

2 years down the line in the EL pushing for CL then yeah I could see it but not now (and 2 years down the line I'm hoping Barry means we don't need one) 

The Watkins injury concern I can completely understand but I think we take the risk or shop cheaper or buy a utility player 

We took the risk last season and we were ok apart from Watkins looking knackered in some parts of the second half of the season.  I dont see options upfront.  Having all this creative talent and relying on one player in Ollie to put the ball in the back of the net is bonkers.  From things like it's not working in the game because somebody has Ollie in their pocket or he's a bit off form or the tactics are just not working and we need to try something else.  Having Tammy would give us all those plus push Ollie to be better because they are fighting for the shirt.  It also gives us flexibility upfront that Smith has never had in his tenure of two quality fit strikers.  Even chasing a game we could have two strikers on the pitch.  How many times have you also thought when Ollie drops out wide to get the ball that we dont have anybody in the box to receive any cross or pass.  Injury is my big worry but not having two quality strikers is bonkers for a top 8 never mind a european chasing team.

Plus doing too slow like you are suggesting will likely mean that Jack will be gone.  We have this star now, lets build around him, I'm not talking about throwing the money out the bank but we have an opportunity and for me if Ollie does get injured our season is very limited and then we do lose Jack next summer.  Others dont see a striker as a priority, I do.  I think CAM is top but striker is second for me.  To have what I would call a 'bird in the hand' of Tammy who knows the league, proven goalscorer, knows the way we play and is successful and only 23 years old is the most low risk transfer almost ever and paying £40m for a proven in the PL, 23 year old striker is great value.

As for Barry, he looks a superstar but 2 years down the line is 2 years down the line, the whole world could change then.  The kid needs to got out on loan and play regularly adult football to gain experience and see if he can do it because many kids that I've watched over the years havent been able to make that step.  I think he'll do great but he has to now go and do it and it's far from guaranteed.

We have think of the here and now.  We have to show Jack and for me we need another striker.  Welcome Tammy!!!

[Dave-R]

2 minutes ago, PaulMcGrath_5 said:

You’re an absolute mad man, Dave and I love it!

Best way to be, Madness over Sanity anyday lol. really I should be saying thankyou GOD!!

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Dave-R