Popular Post The_Steve Posted May 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 11, 2022 33 minutes ago, Jonesy7211 said: I've been on various fan forums this morning, and read the comments in match reports on multiple websites. The reaction from villa fans has only been echoed by fans from other teams. So it's not just us being one eyed. Jon Moss was appalling last night, and blatantly favoured Liverpool. There absolutely is corruption, collusion, and unprofessionalism in the English game. Refs are probably being told to keep the title race ongoing till the end of the season, so the league can brag about how competitive it is in comparison to our European counterparts. I am more and more convinced that ineptitude is maintained because of the sheer money involved. Sky didn’t want the title race over. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted May 11, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 11, 2022 7 minutes ago, El Zen said: It’s rigged as f***, no doubt, but I don’t think there is evidence of criminal conspiricy and outright corruption. If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck then it's a duck. Moss was bad tonight , he got in the way of play multiple times and the decisions were baffling. Two stuck in my mind. We broke from a Liverpool attack and he blew the whistle and brought the play back for a Liverpool offside while they was attacking , why ? Then he gave us an advantage after a Liverpool foul we immediately lost the ball and he allowed play to continue with a Liverpool attack. Unbelievable. Add to that Konsa being brought down in the box for the goal and Coutinho being wrestled off the ball with nothing given. It's terrible to watch the game being destroyed by incompetence and biased match officials. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy7211 Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 22 minutes ago, El Zen said: I remain sceptical when it comes to claims of outright corruption, as in referees actually taking money for match fixing. I’m also very sceptical to claims the league is actively conspiring and instructing refs to influence results. There is, however, a lot of gross incompetance - as examplified by the clearly not fit for the job Jon Moss being allowed to ref Premier League games - and, I suspect, a systematic bias in favour of the top teams. Again, I don’t think there is any evidence to suggest that bias is an actual policy, but it as the result of expectations. These red do their job in a league, and in a media market, where maintaining the success of the most powerful clubs is expected, and indeed desired. Refs know that decisions against the most powerful clubs come with a lot of scrutiny, on a global scale. Give a pen against Liverpool and you’ll get death threats from five different continents, and that’s not an exaggeration. The English football pyramid had become so top heavy, it’s bound to influence every single decision a referee makes in games involving the so-called big clubs. It’s rigged as f***, no doubt, but I don’t think there is evidence of criminal conspiricy and outright corruption. I do understand your points, and they do make a lot of sense. I don't doubt these things do influence decisions in a lot of cases. However, we live in world where we've seen evidence of refereeing corruption in other countries, and in other sports too. I certainly don't think it's a stretch to consider our league corrupt. It's the most valuable league in the world, and we've already seen clubs on many occasions try to ensure they get the biggest pieces of the pie with FFP, distribution of prize money, ESL etc. I don't think those clubs, along with those that that run the PL, would be above at least financially pressuring PGMOL to ensure they get their desired outcomes. Also the refs tend to stick around far longer than they should, it's very much an old pals club. When you add in VAR, which also seems to more regularly favour certain teams, I can't see anything other than corruption. All of these issues occur far too frequently. If it was only a problem with refereeing standards I think we'd see the whole of the English game taking steps to address this. Having the best refs to ensure the quality of the game would be beneficial to everyone involved. They haven't done it yet, and I wouldn't hold my breathe waiting for it to happen either. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, tinker said: If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck then it's a duck. Moss was bad tonight , he got in the way of play multiple times and the decisions were baffling. Two stuck in my mind. We broke from a Liverpool attack and he blew the whistle and brought the play back for a Liverpool offside while they was attacking , why ? Then he gave us an advantage after a Liverpool foul we immediately lost the ball and he allowed play to continue with a Liverpool attack. Unbelievable. Add to that Konsa being brought down in the box for the goal and Coutinho being wrestled off the ball with nothing given. It's terrible to watch the game being destroyed by incompetence and biased match officials. I absolutely agree. Probably the worst overall 90 minutes I’ve ever seen from a ref. But I don’t think he was crap because he was paid/explicitly told to be crap. He was crap because he’s not fit to do the job. Which is terrible on its own, and outright disrespectful to both the players on the pitch and the fans watching, but not evidence of criminal conspiricy. Edited May 11, 2022 by El Zen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 19 minutes ago, Jonesy7211 said: I do understand your points, and they do make a lot of sense. I don't doubt these things do influence decisions in a lot of cases. However, we live in world where we've seen evidence of refereeing corruption in other countries, and in other sports too. I certainly don't think it's a stretch to consider our league corrupt. It's the most valuable league in the world, and we've already seen clubs on many occasions try to ensure they get the biggest pieces of the pie with FFP, distribution of prize money, ESL etc. I don't think those clubs, along with those that that run the PL, would be above at least financially pressuring PGMOL to ensure they get their desired outcomes. Also the refs tend to stick around far longer than they should, it's very much an old pals club. When you add in VAR, which also seems to more regularly favour certain teams, I can't see anything other than corruption. All of these issues occur far too frequently. If it was only a problem with refereeing standards I think we'd see the whole of the English game taking steps to address this. Having the best refs to ensure the quality of the game would be beneficial to everyone involved. They haven't done it yet, and I wouldn't hold my breathe waiting for it to happen either. I fully understand the feeling, and why the question is asked, but I am instinctively careful not to cry conspiricy without hard evidence. Systematic corruption at this level is very hard to hide. It would require a conspiricy involving so many individuals, someone would eventually blow the whistle. I’m going to maintain that position until I see hard evidence of the opposite. As I would with any conspiracy theory. That does not in any way mean I think professional football isn’t fundamentally rigged to ensure the continued success and predominance of the most powerful clubs, nor does it mean I don’t think refereeing in the Premier League is heavily influenced by these power structures, as well as being riddled with sheer incompetance. I very much do, and it needs fundamental change yesterday. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 44 minutes ago, tinker said: If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck then it's a duck. Moss was bad tonight , he got in the way of play multiple times and the decisions were baffling. Two stuck in my mind. We broke from a Liverpool attack and he blew the whistle and brought the play back for a Liverpool offside while they was attacking , why ? Then he gave us an advantage after a Liverpool foul we immediately lost the ball and he allowed play to continue with a Liverpool attack. Unbelievable. Add to that Konsa being brought down in the box for the goal and Coutinho being wrestled off the ball with nothing given. It's terrible to watch the game being destroyed by incompetence and biased match officials. He gave us an advantage when we had a free kick in their half, a blatant one. The advantage was the ball going backwards to our defenders who were immediately pressed by the Liverpool red arrows. They gave an offside against Liverpool towards the end of the game. The player I don't think touched the ball and we literally had the ball on the right wing at 2-1 down looking to break. I think Coutinho was given offside for standing still whilst VVD heading the ball unchallenged. I don't recall if we retained psossession on this one but I presume so. The amount of decisions, blatant fouls they were given on the basis of the lino flagging was laughable. Moss half a mile away not a clue. The amount of times Moss blew ( even in our favour) 2 seconds after an incident, because of the sheer amount of disbelief from the crowd and players was hilarious. Basically " Shit, what was that. Erm...foul!" Konsa getting absolutely cleaned out on the edge of our box when passing it out in the first half was one. Just guessing. Yes, constantly in the way, constantly half a mile from the action. Constantly blowing up for fouls ( again...fouls in our favour) and having a chat with Mings for half hour??? Why, it's our freekick. Fabinho must have commited about 7 fouls in half hour. I think he saw 3 and he should have been booked for persistent blatant cynical fouls in about a 10 minute horror spell. He wasn't. It's not corruption. It's just a fat man, blowing out of backside, half a mile from the action, guessing at decisions and so tired and flustered he can't think straight. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 11, 2022 Moderator Share Posted May 11, 2022 1 hour ago, El Zen said: I remain sceptical when it comes to claims of outright corruption, as in referees actually taking money for match fixing. I’m also very sceptical to claims the league is actively conspiring and instructing refs to influence results. There is, however, a lot of gross incompetence - as exemplified by the clearly not fit for the job Jon Moss being allowed to ref Premier League games - and, I suspect, a systematic bias in favour of the top teams. Again, I don’t think there is any evidence to suggest that bias is an actual policy, but it as the result of expectations. These red do their job in a league, and in a media market, where maintaining the success of the most powerful clubs is expected, and indeed desired. Refs know that decisions against the most powerful clubs come with a lot of scrutiny, on a global scale. Give a pen against Liverpool and you’ll get death threats from five different continents, and that’s not an exaggeration. The English football pyramid had become so top heavy, it’s bound to influence every single decision a referee makes in games involving the so-called big clubs. It’s rigged as f***, no doubt, but I don’t think there is evidence of criminal conspiricy and outright corruption. I agree with this take, with the caveat that I think it's maybe less about fear of death threats from numpties on twitter or wherever, and more about a fear of making a mistake with a big impact - I mean if a ref gets a call wrong and contributes to a defeat for a team at the top, then it'll always be "John Moss's refereeing mistake that cost Liverpool the title", whereas if he gives the decision in Liverpool's favour(wrongly) it's just "mid table Villa were hard done by in the game". So I think the reason (or one reason) why the teams at the top get more dodgy decisions in their favour is because of officials not wanting to be the story. John Moss though, last night was pretty dreadful generally. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 1 hour ago, tinker said: We broke from a Liverpool attack and he blew the whistle and brought the play back for a Liverpool offside while they was attacking , why ? Then he gave us an advantage after a Liverpool foul we immediately lost the ball and he allowed play to continue with a Liverpool attack. the two were the same thing, the foul was in the first half and cash had the ball with absolutely no pass on but he waved play on so cash went backwards and we lost the ball, the offside was in the second half and im sure the ball went out to watkins who wasnt about to counter he had nothing on so moss brought it back 1st decision was poor 2nd one was ok the luiz handball was the one for me, thats a bad tackle and a yellow card at best for the liverpool player and somehow it ends up being their freekick i did also like carragher in the commentary when konsa did his stupid push, to paraphrase "you cant be that daft and put 2 hands on a player" but sky didnt rewind 30 seconds previous and show ings getting thrown out of the way 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-k Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 https://www.sportbible.com/football/steven-gerrard-seems-quite-glad-jon-moss-is-retiring-from-refereeing-20220511 Quote "I don’t want to cover over any cracks but, you asked me a question, and I said I hope the referee’s performance is looked at." Gerrard was then told Moss was retiring, answering, "Is he? Good." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLillis Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 I think that level of refereeing will improve as soon as we start quizzing refs after the final whistle.Like players and managers are. They should be interviewed about the key decisions in the game and asked for their perspective. We will soon see which refs are actually in control and know why they have made the decisions they make. It’s too easy for them at present no matter what there performance is like they are protected from the aftermath of their mistakes by refereeing pundits who watch replays and think of excuses for them. Make them defend themselves in the full glow of the media after all they are happy to take centre stage during the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Just remember that Jon Moss was James Milner old teacher at school Cant remember what club Milner plays for again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 I made Moss 21 years older than the oldest player on the pitch. He was shit and overweight 10 years ago but it's criminal they have still been sending him out to ref a PL match. Reffing is so much easier if you can keep up with play and actually see what's going on, rather than guessing (and guessing always in Liverpool's favour) from the centre circle. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 1 minute ago, sharkyvilla said: I made Moss 21 years older than the oldest player on the pitch. He was shit and overweight 10 years ago but it's criminal they have still been sending him out to ref a PL match. Reffing is so much easier if you can keep up with play and actually see what's going on, rather than guessing (and guessing always in Liverpool's favour) from the centre circle. He is older than probably half of the Premier League managers. Its not all his fault as Premier League needs take responsibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Don’t forget, that useless Moss was the ref who allowed that disgusting offside goal against us for Man City, and got Dean sent off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy54 Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 I was there last night and comments on here about him being old and unfit are true to be honest, he was awful. What concerns me is why is he still refereeing? I did hear that this not the last we will hear about this person, he is getting promotion:- Premier League referees Martin Atkinson and Jon Moss are set to retire at the end of the season and take up roles within the Professional Game Match Officials organisation The Times have reported that Moss will be the new manager of the ‘select group one’ referees, who officiate in the Premier League, while Atkinson will be their coach While I hope that there is no dodgy dealings such as bottles of whiskey or brown envelopes in the officials changing room, I do think the same as others have that there is "unconscious bias" by many refs towards favouring the so called "big" clubs. But what to do about it......? European (non British refs) seems to be much better than our current crop why cannot they ref prem games?.....or will that upset the "closed shop" of poor refs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 The James red card will hopefully see the end of idiots saying "but they won the ball", as if that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 no it wont. I watched Chelsea Leeds, at half time Souness said It doesn't mater if he touched the ball, he took the man out, it was dangerous, definite red card. Jota studs up took Konsa out. Wonder what he thought about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 2 hours ago, colhint said: no it wont. I watched Chelsea Leeds, at half time Souness said It doesn't mater if he touched the ball, he took the man out, it was dangerous, definite red card. Jota studs up took Konsa out. Wonder what he thought about that. Irony is Souness has made much more dangerous tackles than all these incidents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 8 hours ago, delboy54 said: I was there last night and comments on here about him being old and unfit are true to be honest, he was awful. What concerns me is why is he still refereeing? I did hear that this not the last we will hear about this person, he is getting promotion:- Premier League referees Martin Atkinson and Jon Moss are set to retire at the end of the season and take up roles within the Professional Game Match Officials organisation The Times have reported that Moss will be the new manager of the ‘select group one’ referees, who officiate in the Premier League, while Atkinson will be their coach While I hope that there is no dodgy dealings such as bottles of whiskey or brown envelopes in the officials changing room, I do think the same as others have that there is "unconscious bias" by many refs towards favouring the so called "big" clubs. But what to do about it......? European (non British refs) seems to be much better than our current crop why cannot they ref prem games?.....or will that upset the "closed shop" of poor refs? Its worrying but at least they are off the actual pitch... Mike Dean is retiring too but for all his eccentricity he is an actual good refereee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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