Mic09 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 minute ago, tinker said: Vars here now, can't decide half way through a game to not use it. If anyone can defend it then their a lost cause to the principle of fair play. Let me get this straight - it was a wrong decision that VAR wasn't used. But if it was, it would have been called off anyway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted May 9 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9 58 minutes ago, Mic09 said: In my opinion De Ligt is off, he plays a major part in the defenders actions/calculations, and at the moment of the pass he is expecting the ball just as much as the other guy. As for Mazraoui who headed the ball, I think he is on, but it's too hard to tell with the above line. I don't think De Ligt would/should be given offside within the current rules. I agree that it should be offside, but that's beside the point here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted May 9 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Let me get this straight - it was a wrong decision that VAR wasn't used. But if it was, it would have been called off anyway Yeah, they could've called it off. Or the VAR could've decided to call it on. And therein lies the problem - offside, much like goalline/touchline decisions are, could be made completely objective. But they're not. Which is exactly why all players in offside positions should just always be given offside regardless of when or where the ball is. Admittedly, this would introduce some other small issues (such as an injured player being offside, or short corners the taker would have to get back quickly, and play would soon adapt to that), but the positives would far outweigh the main negative - subjectivity. Edited May 9 by fightoffyour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 26 minutes ago, fightoffyour said: Yeah, they could've called it off. Or the VAR could've decided to call it on. And therein lies the problem - offside, much like goalline/touchline decisions are, could be made completely objective. But they're not. Which is exactly why all players in offside positions should just always be given offside regardless of when or where the ball is. Admittedly, this would introduce some other small issues (such as an injured player being offside, or short corners the taker would have to get back quickly, and play would soon adapt to that), but the positives would far outweigh the main negative - subjectivity. Possibly, but you would potentially have the same lines drawn for a player that could be 30 yards away no where near the action in the corner of the pitch. That might cause even more argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted May 9 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9 11 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Possibly, but you would potentially have the same lines drawn for a player that could be 30 yards away no where near the action in the corner of the pitch. That might cause even more argument. Potentially, there would be a few weird situations for sure. But combined with the use of automated AI technology, ball sensors to give the right frame, higher FPS as well, it would take away the subjectivity of decisions. I think that's the most important aspect. The decisions would also happen very quickly, and be called before the play is allowed to develop in a controversial, goal-threatening action in many cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dog Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 I think the confusion about when/where the lino flags could be easily avoided if they never flagged at all for offside, it's always going to VAR anyway isn't it? (Not that I'm for that, I **** hate VAR, but surely it's a more consistent approach) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted May 9 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9 I find it all very confusing. I feel that the decisions were right in the main. The Real Madrid goal was offside because a player was offside and the defender was having to act to deal with him, even if ultimately he wasn't the guy that received the ball. I also feel the Bayern goal was valid because the goalscorer was standing around behind the play and happened to be onside when the ball was played to him. However, I can't adequately explain why I feel that one was "interfering with play therefore offside" whilst the other wasn't, beyond just a gut instinct and some wishy washy words around active play and whatnot. And this is part of the issue with VAR - you can't realistically boil this down to a Boolean on/off decision, there are many factors involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted May 9 VT Supporter Share Posted May 9 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said: However, I can't adequately explain why I feel that one was "interfering with play therefore offside" whilst the other wasn't, beyond just a gut instinct and some wishy washy words around active play and whatnot. And this is part of the issue with VAR - you can't realistically boil this down to a Boolean on/off decision, there are many factors involved. You can though, if you simplify the rules. Edited May 9 by fightoffyour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 Not interested in the wonky lines and the millimeters, gakpo not being classed offside on the first pass is a nail in the coffin for me It's **** stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 25 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Not interested in the wonky lines and the millimeters, gakpo not being classed offside on the first pass is a nail in the coffin for me It's **** stupid What about the cheap cameras with the blurred stills. You just cannot see when a ball comes off the boot for the pass. So how the frack can you judge a offside by half a inch. Do they think us fans are stupid!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 Just now, foreveryoung said: What about the cheap cameras with the blurred stills. You just cannot see when a ball comes off the boot for the pass. So how the frack can you judge a offside by half a inch. Do they think us fans are stupid!!! That kind of stuff will get better, even next season with this semi automated stuff The gakpo thing is interpretation, technology won't fix that, refs are reading the rules differently to how we've all played football our entire lives, the rule hasn't changed, just how they read it and they've changed it to something that doesn't make sense, as a defender you can't play that, it's the opposite, you're actively trying to catch gakpo there, it goes against the whole concept of defending The person who came up with that has never played football in their life, it'll ruin football for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: That kind of stuff will get better, even next season with this semi automated stuff The gakpo thing is interpretation, technology won't fix that, refs are reading the rules differently to how we've all played football our entire lives, the rule hasn't changed, just how they read it and they've changed it to something that doesn't make sense, as a defender you can't play that, it's the opposite, you're actively trying to catch gakpo there, it goes against the whole concept of defending The person who came up with that has never played football in their life, it'll ruin football for me You right. Everyone at the pgmol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 Just now, villa4europe said: That kind of stuff will get better, even next season with this semi automated stuff The gakpo thing is interpretation, technology won't fix that, refs are reading the rules differently to how we've all played football our entire lives, the rule hasn't changed, just how they read it and they've changed it to something that doesn't make sense, as a defender you can't play that, it's the opposite, you're actively trying to catch gakpo there, it goes against the whole concept of defending The person who came up with that has never played football in their life, it'll ruin football for me I still disagree. The defence could see him and can drop back; they do on the right and try to then catch Gomes(?) offside, but the left-hand side just leaves Gakpo in there - and they had tons of time to react, he runs in behind but the ball doesn't get played to him, and instead gets switched to the other side. The defence can still sort themselves out, but they don't. And I know the goal I'm about to talk about was ruled out for offside, but when Watkins "scores" it shouldn't be ruled out because he was offside before as he runs through. The ball goes to Bailey, who carries it on and the defence have time to sort themselves out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 Just now, bobzy said: I still disagree. The defence could see him and can drop back; they do on the right and try to then catch Gomes(?) offside, but the left-hand side just leaves Gakpo in there - and they had tons of time to react, he runs in behind but the ball doesn't get played to him, and instead gets switched to the other side. The defence can still sort themselves out, but they don't. And I know the goal I'm about to talk about was ruled out for offside, but when Watkins "scores" it shouldn't be ruled out because he was offside before as he runs through. The ball goes to Bailey, who carries it on and the defence have time to sort themselves out. They leave him because he's offside... You dont need to track back to cover a man who is 5 yards off, you are defending him, the line is the defence That's why the whole not active phases of play stuff is complete and utter bullshit 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 Just now, villa4europe said: They leave him because he's offside... You dont need to track back to cover a man who is 5 yards off, you are defending him, the line is the defence That's why the whole not active phases of play stuff is complete and utter bullshit It never gets played to him, they're not leaving him because he's offside, they're leaving him because the ball isn't going there at all... ...until a Liverpool player gets goal side of him and the ball ends up there without a defender in sight. If there was some deliberate trap set, I'd arguably agree but it was just "unlucky" at best and poor defending at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheVilla26 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 (edited) Dodgy as hell that Gakpo thing. As for the ref in general, useless lump. Edited May 13 by UpTheVilla26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted May 13 VT Supporter Share Posted May 13 I need someone to explain to me why that rat Diaz did not get at least a yellow card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dog Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 3 hours ago, villa4europe said: Not interested in the wonky lines and the millimeters, gakpo not being classed offside on the first pass is a nail in the coffin for me It's **** stupid Said exactly the same to my mate earlier. At what point did Gakpo not being offside when Gomez was played the ball become a thing? If you're halfway up the pitch, the wide player picks the ball up (onside) and then plays the ball into the forward (who was offside at the time of the first pass), surely that's offside? Else, you could have forwards hanging around offside all game but it's okay as long as they're behind the ball when it's played to them? Not sure if I'm being dumb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 8 hours ago, Follyfoot said: I need someone to explain to me why that rat Diaz did not get at least a yellow card The tackle on Konsa was definitely a booking. It was very late, studs up, nasty. Slightly higher on the shin it would have been red card. The ref can't just ignore that then 10 mins later book someone for a lame shirt pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 (edited) 8 hours ago, T-Dog said: Said exactly the same to my mate earlier. At what point did Gakpo not being offside when Gomez was played the ball become a thing? If you're halfway up the pitch, the wide player picks the ball up (onside) and then plays the ball into the forward (who was offside at the time of the first pass), surely that's offside? Else, you could have forwards hanging around offside all game but it's okay as long as they're behind the ball when it's played to them? Not sure if I'm being dumb? Teams use that tactic. We do to a degree. Have people stand in an offside position to distract opposition, give us a target to aim the ball at, be in position ready for a cut back from someone else. None of those situations result in the flag going up. It's bizarre that the current interpretation of the rule allows it, but it does. So we (and others) abuse it however we can. Edited May 14 by MrBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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