richp999 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 The key thing that stops smaller clubs catching the top 6 is the fact you can't just inject money. Limiting the losses is sensible, but If an owner wants to put hard cash in, (and not by the way of a loan) then they should be able to. At the moment you can't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 6 hours ago, richp999 said: But you still can't do it like this. The signing on fee and transfer fee would be accounted for as a 'spend' "by the club and hence a loss.. And the club is only asked to make a £13m loss per year total. (wages, transfer fees, signing on fees.. Everything) If you have a rich owner that is willing to pay these costs, the problem is getting the money INTO the club. You cant just pop online and transfer a few million across. The club has to be seen to 'earn' it, as an income. I.e. Sponsorship, shirt sales etc.. There would be some creative ways to do it, like an earlier poster suggesting selling the seat next to Tony for £100m...sounds daft but that type of thing is the only way around it. The money needs to come into the club then get transferred elsewhere in an unattached transaction. On top of this if the league think your blagging it they can still fail your ffp. I think the rule is the any sale of anything has to be at the going rate, or close to what you could reasonably get on the open market. So they would say 'nobody else would ever pay £100m for a seat at a football ground, show me someone else who would pay that' and so you wouldn't get that transaction included in your ffp calculation. Its pretty difficult to get around, even if the money is there to try. Having said that if the will and money really was there, I'm sure you could dream up ways to do it. Put a sponsorship spot on every seat in villa park, £1000 each per year.. That's raise £40m a year. No ones ever done it so who could say how expensive it should be? No sorry I don't mean that's what we should do. I mean that's what owners should be allowed to do. You don't put risk on the club as the money has been put in upfront solely for the fees as opposed to the longer term wages. That way even if the owner decided to stop investing, the wage budget would still be manageable as that would be based on FFP rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Income should be based on debt, not on profit and loss. The only issue with that is wages, you could have lots of players on long contracts expensive contracts (see Aston Villa, 2009-2018), and if an owner walks away they can't be paid. As such i'd have a rule that an owner must have money set aside in a trust of sorts to cover all the outstanding player contracts, or enough to buy players out of their contracts so they can play elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 On 07/06/2018 at 01:19, Zatman said: These are just my estimates probably way off but this is our squad wages for last season. I might be way off but that comes to over 750k a week in wages not including bonuses Johnstone 15k Steer 10k Bunn 6k Hutton 30k De Laet 20k Bree 15k Chester 40k Terry 50k Samba 15k Taylor 30k Richards 40k Tuanzebe 10k Elphick 30k Grealish 30k Tishbola 20k Jedinak 50k Whelan 30k Bjarnason 25k Hourinhane 30k Lansbury 40k Adomah 30k Elmo 25k Kodjia 30k Grabban 30k Hogan 30k Gabby 45k McCormack 40k I don't think your estimates are far off Zatman. I think Gabby was on slightly less because of his relegation reduction clause, but other than that, I'd say they're not far off. Apart from Chester, Taylor, Richards, Jedinak, Lansbury, Gabby and McCormack, you could look at those players' wages in isolation as being what those individuals are probably worth. They're generally not extortionate amounts, in this day and age, as the majority of our higher paid players are being paid for their experience, which can be vitally important. The thing that has failed us for years is that we like to fill our whole 25-man squad with players on these types of wages, instead of doing what other teams do, which is having half a squad of these wages or 'luxury players' and then the rest made up of youngsters and cheap players that are yet to reach their potential. This is why I'm not too worried about us trimming down our squad. Instead of dreading the yearly 'Who pays the most?' article, it will be nice to see us blending into the crowd, having 5-6 youngsters, 10-15 of our current lot and then some cheap buys & free transfers. I've heard quite a few people say that we won't have ANY money to buy players this summer, but that's utter balls. We're not going to sell half of our squad without bringing in some replacements. Even our management and ownership aren't stupid enough to think that we'll have a squad capable of avoiding relegation if we're relying on that many of the U23s. People seem to forget that you can pick up half-decent players for peanuts nowadays if you look in the right places. £500k is a lot of money for a lower Championship or upper League One team, and picking up this year's Ashley Westwood isn't inconceivable. We'll be saving that amount every month by not paying for Terry's, Snoddy's and Johnstone's wages, so it's not like we won't be able to make a few one-off payments to bring in another body, an then pay them £10k-£15k p/w in wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 31 minutes ago, Rob182 said: I've heard quite a few people say that we won't have ANY money to buy players this summer. I'm yet to be convinced that we will have any money other than possibly enough to pay the wages of a couple of loan/free transfer players after we have sold the likes of Jack, Chester and Kodjia although the recent E & S report has now given me some hope. I hope your view of our situation proves to be the right one. I will be happy to have been proved too negative over the last few days. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 I still dont see why all this should apply to any club that is not in the Premier league.I cant even understand why it should apply to any club outside the top 10 in the Premier league. Surley the more clubs that have money the more competitive the league ( up to a point ) the last thing we need is a league like they have in Scotland,Germany,Spain,Belgium,Austria,Switzerland,etc,etc,etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Ffp how are forest affording a 13m signing for one player?? Makes absolutely no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Ffp how are forest affording a 13m signing for one player?? Makes absolutely no sense. Not sure, but it's a fair price for our "Scottish Cafu". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewiek2 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: Ffp how are forest affording a 13m signing for one player?? Makes absolutely no sense. F**ks sake don't tell me Forest are bidding for Jack as well!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 21 hours ago, richp999 said: The key thing that stops smaller clubs catching the top 6 is the fact you can't just inject money. Limiting the losses is sensible, but If an owner wants to put hard cash in, (and not by the way of a loan) then they should be able to. At the moment you can't. In my view the key thing that stops smaller Clubs catching the Top Clubs is the fact that they are smaller Clubs. Yes a couple have benefitted ( so far) from wealth injections ( Chelsea, Man City, and to a lesser extent Spurs) but they are the lucky ( so far) exceptions. Whatever anyone did, other than an American style quota, there will always be a heirarchy, and there always was, in fact, once upon a time, about 100 years ago, it was us at the Top ! Theres also only so many players to go round, in descending order of ability, so unless a restriction is placed on squad size, subs, and loans ( never going to happen), the difference between being 10 th and 20 th biggest spender is going to be irrelevant ( as can be seen). With a free for all every fan of every Club could wish for the Santa owner....but what if they all got them ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 How can PSG possibly pass FFP and yet we have to suffer under it. They spent 350M on two players (I think). So much about football thats wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 13 hours ago, PussEKatt said: Surely the more clubs that have money the more competitive the league This is precisely why we have these rules, to keep the rich rich and keep the not so rich in their place. We can't have any old wealthy person investing money and upsetting the likes of Real & Man Utd. That would be unacceptable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skills Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 anyone know if we have a sell on fee for Ayew? have read Fulham are willing to spend 8m on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1984 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 17 minutes ago, Skills said: anyone know if we have a sell on fee for Ayew? have read Fulham are willing to spend 8m on him Highly doubt it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Skills said: anyone know if we have a sell on fee for Ayew? have read Fulham are willing to spend 8m on him We should have tried to put one on him and on most of those players that left us when we were relegated but the buying club are naturally reluctant to have one and I guess we wanted to get rid for any reasonable fee so didn't think ahead and insist on one in case that cost us the deal. That said I don't know for sure that we don't have one in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 14, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2018 16 hours ago, PussEKatt said: Surley the more clubs that have money the more competitive the league ( up to a point ) the last thing we need is a league like they have in Scotland,Germany,Spain,Belgium,Austria,Switzerland,etc,etc,etc The modern game is first and foremost a television rights entity, that's where its value lies. It's a sporting entity second. I remember almost a decade ago reading Peter Scudamore saying how much the "big four" had helped the Premier league in Asian markets - having a settled group of teams at the top allows for viewers in other regions to more easily access the league. If a man in China picks Chelsea as his English team, he can be fairly sure they'll be modestly successful for some time; they'll be involved at the top and that will keep him interested. You need enough of those teams to allow for choice, but you don't want too many - too many teams like that is like a soap opera with too many new characters, it's hard to keep track of and your favourite might not be involved in as many stories. If that happens, people will turn over to Eastenders.....sorry, I mean La Liga. TV wants leagues like they have in Scotland and Spain, the Premier league is probably a tiny bit too top heavy for them at the moment - big teams aren't making the Champions league - they'll find a way to fix that. It doesn't want someone like Southampton suddenly finding a fortune and pushing into the top 4. That'd be like when Jeremy Renner became Bourne - it'd be confusing and devalue the franchise. FFP is primarily about protecting the value of TV rights by keeping the cast list for the show nice and consistent. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Interesting thread Looks like rather than sanctions and fines, the EFL will look to work with the club and give them a time period to get back within the FFP limits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 PSG has been cleared of any misdoings regarding FFP after 8 months of investigations. Quote CASE CLOSED - FOR NOW PSG cleared of breaking FFP rules after eight-month investigation and will play in Champions League next season But they have to sell £53m worth of talent THIS MONTH to satisfy requirements for the 2017/18 accounts PARIS SAINT-GERMAIN have been cleared of breaking Financial Fair Play rules. The case has been "closed" after an eight-month investigation into their accounts for the financial years ending 2015, 2016 and 2017. Uefa has closed a case concerning PSG breakign Financial Fair Play Get the best Football stories with our daily newsletter Your information will be used in accordance with our privacy policy That means the French champions will be allowed to take their place in next season's Champions League. But to meet the requirements for the 2017/18 year, they have been told they must sell £53m worth of talent THIS MONTH. And further down the line, the fact that they are still over the limit now makes the prospect of being able to sign Kylian Mbappe for £166m almost impossible. The 19-year-old spent last season at the Parc des Princes on loan from Monaco, with an 'obligation-to-buy' clause inserted in the deal. Uefa decided after an eight-month investigation that PSG's transfer dealings complied with Financial Fair Play There were fears that the Ligue 1 champs might have to sell off some of their biggest stars, such as Edinson Cavani It could mean the French international spends a second season on loan with the champs. A statement from Uefa on the ruling reads: "The CFCB Investigatory Chamber further decided to close the investigation in to Paris Saint-Germain. "Such decision follows a detailed review of transfer contracts and an analysis of the related management accounts which confirmed that such transactions were in line with the Uefa Club Licensing & Financial Fair Play Regulations." The cash-rich French club purchased Neymar last year for a world record £198million and are obliged to buy Kylian Mbappe this summer for £162m after his season-long loan this year. Europe's big clubs reportedly put pressure on Uefa to give PSG a slap on the wrist, given Financial Fair Play was set up to stop cash-rich buyers coming in and simply purchasing an entire dream team. Some sceptics have seen FFP as a mechanism for the established big sides in Europe to maintain a status quo though, meaning they can stay on top by keeping up traditional revenue streams like TV and match tickets. But after checking the French club's balance sheets, the case has been closed by Uefa - for now. https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/6522014/psg-cleared-of-breaking-ffp-rules-champions-league/ Nothing dodgy at all going on here, move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 On 13/06/2018 at 00:10, richp999 said: The key thing that stops smaller clubs catching the top 6 is the fact you can't just inject money. Limiting the losses is sensible, but If an owner wants to put hard cash in, (and not by the way of a loan) then they should be able to. At the moment you can't. yep they want to stop clubs from bankrupting themselves but all they have really done is ensure the big clubs can't ever be caught and clubs can just as easily go out of business because they can't accept self investment from the people that own them!!! Although i doubt even if he could Xia would invest more money, well if you believe all the noise and bullsh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 2 hours ago, omariqy said: Interesting thread Looks like rather than sanctions and fines, the EFL will look to work with the club and give them a time period to get back within the FFP limits. Read that myself and it is pretty interesting and looks positive for us if true in the short term at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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