GarethRDR Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 If we were savvy enough to put a sell-on clause in the Veretout deal, that might net us a small bit of cash this summer. Marseille have reportedly had an initial €20m enquiry turned down by Fiorentina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggy_333 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 1 minute ago, GarethRDR said: If we were savvy enough to put a sell-on clause in the Veretout deal, that might net us a small bit of cash this summer. Marseille have reportedly had an initial €20m enquiry turned down by Fiorentina. I'm sure I read we receive a 20% sell on fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skills Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 On 02/06/2018 at 20:07, omariqy said: Right I have had a go at an FFP spreadsheet!!! Two tables - the first shows the wages saved on the players leaving after their loan spells or contracts expiring. The second shows players who I would hope would leave and who are already scheduled to leave. Figures are estimates and I may have completely missed the point around wages saved (I read that you can use the total amount saved in this years FFP figures). good post mate, being an accountant I love this sort of stuff! only question is do we register the wages saved for the length of the contract in the 2019 year, or only the 2019 portion? ie. you've got wages saved for Hogan of 5.5m however the cost of his wages for the FFP year of 2019 is 1.8m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Skills said: good post mate, being an accountant I love this sort of stuff! only question is do we register the wages saved for the length of the contract in the 2019 year, or only the 2019 portion? ie. you've got wages saved for Hogan of 5.5m however the cost of his wages for the FFP year of 2019 is 1.8m Yeah I thought that but I have read in several places now that you bring forward the entire length of the contract in to the current accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 It's a sad state of affairs when we are hoping for sell-on bonuses from Jordan Vertout and Adama Traore to help with our financial woes... 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 9 hours ago, GarethRDR said: If we were savvy enough to put a sell-on clause in the Veretout deal, that might net us a small bit of cash this summer. Marseille have reportedly had an initial €20m enquiry turned down by Fiorentina. I believe we were savvy enough and I've seen a figure of 20% bandied (willy nilly) about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 11 hours ago, paul1984 said: I don't know either but it will surely be before the work starts? I’m pretty confident that almost anything you can think of will happen, football wise or elsewhere, before that work starts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, omariqy said: I believe we were savvy enough and I've seen a figure of 20% bandied (willy nilly) about. Always puzzled me these sell ons............a Club think somebody isn’t worth keeping so they shift them fairly cheaply.....it turns out they were worth a good deal more yet the original seller is regarded as savvy because they get 10-20% ? Wouldn’t it be more savvy to get the bigger fee, all of it ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjc Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 7 hours ago, Skills said: good post mate, being an accountant I love this sort of stuff! only question is do we register the wages saved for the length of the contract in the 2019 year, or only the 2019 portion? ie. you've got wages saved for Hogan of 5.5m however the cost of his wages for the FFP year of 2019 is 1.8m Transfer fees do work like that above...unfortunately wages don't. The FFP test is on the amount of profit we make on a rolling three-year basis, so for next year we will be tested on 2016/17 - 2018/19. The numbers that people have come up with on how much we need to 'save' are a comparison to our 2017/8 cost base. Taking Hogan as an example, and if the above is correct at £35k per week, he cost us £1.82m last season. So if we sell him now, we save his wages of £1.82m across the season (and no more). If we sell him in January, we will have spent £0.9m this season, so would only save £0.9m compared to last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, mrjc said: Transfer fees do work like that above...unfortunately wages don't. The FFP test is on the amount of profit we make on a rolling three-year basis, so for next year we will be tested on 2016/17 - 2018/19. The numbers that people have come up with on how much we need to 'save' are a comparison to our 2017/8 cost base. Taking Hogan as an example, and if the above is correct at £35k per week, he cost us £1.82m last season. So if we sell him now, we save his wages of £1.82m across the season (and no more). If we sell him in January, we will have spent £0.9m this season, so would only save £0.9m compared to last season. This was from the article posted earlier Quote However, when a player is sold, the club also get out from any future expected amortization expense — the club would shed £2 million in expenses in the first year, then £2 million the next year. Adding the profit/loss to the decrease in amortization expense over the length of the contract gives you the benefit of the full fee. It’s notable, however, because Villa are primarily interested in passing FFP for 2018–19 and likely not as worried about 2019–20 impacts. Not sure if I read that wrong. Reading it again it may mean the amortisation cost is bought forward rather then the wages? Any accountants hazard a guess? I can adjust the figures. Edited June 4, 2018 by omariqy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 4, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2018 16 hours ago, daggy_333 said: I'm sure I read we receive a 20% sell on fee. Hope to god that is true. We could earn around £3m if that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggy_333 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, sidcow said: Hope to god that is true. We could earn around £3m if that's the case. Hopefully it'll be more than that. Fiorentina have rejected the first bid of €20mil apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) On 01/06/2018 at 18:32, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Says who? I would suggest playing week in week out at his boyhood club and fighting to take them up would be just as if not MORE valuable. Yup, that's why all the best up and coming players are in the championship. He needs to be playing against/with better players to continue to grow. He has the technical ability to be starting for any of the prem champions league teams, but needs to move up or be left behind. He's no longer a baby or even a prospect and needs to step up or else he'll just be another wasted talent. His decision to declare for England suggests that Jack et al. are keenly aware of these things. $20m with an extra $10m or so in various addons and we'll be doing well absent a bidding war. Given the Veretout $20m rumor, and he's proven himself at the higher level now. Edited June 4, 2018 by villakram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 6 hours ago, terrytini said: Always puzzled me these sell ons............a Club think somebody isn’t worth keeping so they shift them fairly cheaply.....it turns out they were worth a good deal more yet the original seller is regarded as savvy because they get 10-20% ? Wouldn’t it be more savvy to get the bigger fee, all of it ! It's just a bit of give and take. In Fiorentina's case they would never be willing to risk taking a £10m punt on Veretout, if the transfer went sour or he failed to adapt again they are taking a massive hit. If he is a success then you don't mind losing a bit of the profit. Everybody wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) 56 minutes ago, villakram said: Yup, that's why all the best up and coming players are in the championship. He needs to be playing against/with better players to continue to grow. He has the technical ability to be starting for any of the prem champions league teams, but needs to move up or be left behind. He's no longer a baby or even a prospect and needs to step up or else he'll just be another wasted talent. His decision to declare for England suggests that Jack et al. are keenly aware of these things. $20m with an extra $10m or so in various addons and we'll be doing well absent a bidding war. Given the Veretout $20m rumor, and he's proven himself at the higher level now. I find it incredible that fans are arguing the case for selling him minus the finances. Are you a Villa fan or a Jack Grealish fan? I'm guessing we have a few players who would be better off somewhere else to develop too maybe we should set up a commitee to find them all better clubs. EDIT: Alot of the best upcoming players have actually been taken from the Championship. Sessegnon, Alli? Edited June 4, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I find it incredible that fans are arguing the case for selling him minus the finances. Are you a Villa fan or a Jack Grealish fan? I'm guessing we have a few players who would be better off somewhere else to develop too maybe we should set up a commitee to find them all better clubs. EDIT: Alot of the best upcoming players have actually been taken from the Championship. Sessegnon, Alli? Jeez, where have I argued that Villa should be acting to sell him? Stop living in the past, the players have power now, especially the good ones. Jack is simply too good to be wasting his talent in the championship at a club such as ours. I do understand how uncomfortable a fact that is. That the financial realities we face may make his sale more palatable is fortunate for someone, but certainly not any Villa fan, as he has pretty much been the only bright light we've seen over these last 6-7 dismal years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, terrytini said: Always puzzled me these sell ons............a Club think somebody isn’t worth keeping so they shift them fairly cheaply.....it turns out they were worth a good deal more yet the original seller is regarded as savvy because they get 10-20% ? Wouldn’t it be more savvy to get the bigger fee, all of it ! Or to keep and utilise a good player correctly to help achieve the ambitions you set out for in the first place. Then perhaps sell him for a huge fee and reinvesting in Continued growth. How it is supposed to be anyway. Edited June 4, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjc Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 5 hours ago, omariqy said: This was from the article posted earlier Not sure if I read that wrong. Reading it again it may mean the amortisation cost is bought forward rather then the wages? Any accountants hazard a guess? I can adjust the figures. Yes, that quote is true - the difference is in the technical explanation. Wages aren’t amortised (they are incurred each year as they are paid), whereas the transfer fee is amortised (it’s an asset which is paid for on day 1, and spread over the life of the asset - ie, the contract length). So when we sell hogan, we take the fee but have to write off any remaining unamortised asset value - as you have done with the transfer fee bit. But we only save his wages next year, because that is all we would have incurred in our P&L anyway. Sorry, maybe not explaining it the best - but on your spreadsheet our saving for next year’s FFP is the annual salary, plus transfer fee, less unamortised asset value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkiller1981 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 So the is a story in the telegraph saying we are so broke that we can’t even afford Alan Huttons wages so we are not offering him a new contract. No side line of weather we actually wanted to offer a contract or that we thought he wasn’t worth the money at 34 years old just that we can’t afford him. I’m starting to get very bored of the financials. Yes are position isn’t great but it’s not like we won’t probably have a higher budget than 95% of the other teams in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 16 minutes ago, punkiller1981 said: So the is a story in the telegraph saying we are so broke that we can’t even afford Alan Huttons wages so we are not offering him a new contract. No side line of weather we actually wanted to offer a contract or that we thought he wasn’t worth the money at 34 years old just that we can’t afford him. I’m starting to get very bored of the financials. Yes are position isn’t great but it’s not like we won’t probably have a higher budget than 95% of the other teams in the league. Really not sure. Based on previous accounts we have to raise between 25-40m - to gives us a transfer budget of Zero. I don't think 95% are championship clubs are like that. Plus 4-5 of last seasons first teamers were loans - who won't be returning . So I wouldn't be complacent its grim. However I am sure Dr Tony has a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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