blunther Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Villastine said: Chelsea offered him the pay/guarantees he wanted How do you know this? Do you really believe Chelsea have guaranteed him game time? Moneywise, maybe they offered more than we did, maybe they didn't. But we can't go offering ridiculous contracts to 18 year olds who have achieved very little. It'd be a terrible precedent to set. He has potential, but that's it. Until he's proved himself in the senior game he shouldn't be getting paid like a senior pro. If that means we've lost this player but avoided setting a poor precedent for the future, so be it. Edited August 3, 2022 by blunther 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 56 minutes ago, Villastine said: Chelsea offered him the pay/guarantees he wanted and were willing to throw us 15-20m to make the deal happen quicker. I think we underestimated the interest from else where. We "sensibly" would have offered him 10-30k on a 3-4 year contract. We need to stay within FFP rules, so this in sensible for a player whose resale value and future ability is completely unknown. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire in the mens game. Chelsea have the headroom and he's now guaranteed probably around 60-80k on a 6 year contract. They probably have a loan from a slave club already lined up which will cover half his wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicho Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 1 hour ago, cheltenham_villa said: Don't other clubs have similar stats? If I look at us, we've managed to get through Jack and Ramsey. Our record isn't great. My preference is that he had stayed with us, just trying to offer another perspective. Chelseas record at bringing through players into the first team may not be great, I think it's probably comparable with other top 4 clubs. Chelsea are also pretty good at supporting players through an effective loan system that helps them make it in professional football. You can see that from the players you've listed above. Yes it’s fairly common if not expected that most don’t make it. It was your point that mentioned James and Mount as a reason for optimism on his part… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 The thing with Chelsea isn't that James, Mount and chalobah have broken through or before them Christensen, CHO and RLC it's that they lost to us in the next gen final, they won the reserve league in 2011, 2013, 2020, under 18s league in 2017 and 2018 and the Southern league 4 times, the youth CL in 2015 and 2016, the FA youth Cup 7 times in the last 10 years, under 18s Cup twice, under 16s Cup... They've properly dominated youth football for a decade... And had 6 players come through in that time, only 2 of which are really key players for them Its not a good look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villastine Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 46 minutes ago, blunther said: How do you know this? Do you really believe Chelsea have guaranteed him game time? Moneywise, maybe they offered more than we did, maybe they didn't. But we can't go offering ridiculous contracts to 18 year olds who have achieved very little. It'd be a terrible precedent to set. He has potential, but that's it. Until he's proved himself in the senior game he shouldn't be getting paid like a senior pro. If that means we've lost this player but avoided setting a poor precedent for the future, so be it. He's in the top 5 players in Europe at his age. We can offer him 'crazy' money if that's what other clubs are willing to pay. But it's done now so time to move on As I said the club need to learn from this regardless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 7 minutes ago, Villastine said: He's in the top 5 players in Europe at his age. We can offer him 'crazy' money if that's what other clubs are willing to pay. But it's done now so time to move on As I said the club need to learn from this regardless What can the club learn from this? It’s not like Carney’s one of several promising young players to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvonVillain Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Villastine said: As I said the club need to learn from this regardless At risk of going round in circles, and merely to reiterate what others have said; what is there to learn? This kind of thing will always happen when a young player has no affinity to a particular club, feels they are way ahead of their demonstrable ability and should be ahead of others in the pecking order. He refused to sign a new contract, and we got a massive fee. Club got most everything right here. If anything, players need to learn a lesson from this kind of arrogance and greed. Best of luck to the kid, as I've said in the past, but this move makes no sense, financial reward apart. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 11 hours ago, tezzaleed said: but he's gone to Chelsea and refused to sign a contract with us. He's a fecking bell end. End of. I hope his career is underwhelming and short So **** weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Villain Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 11 hours ago, Don_Simon said: The vitriol aimed at a player, an 18 year old player, for not signing a contract speaks volumes for those wishing him ill or insulting him. In addition, you understand people have broken contracts / threatened to strike to join Villa before (Benteke), or wound down contracts to then join Villa for free (Kamara). Its absurd. Have a **** word with yourself. I don’t get what the problem is here… As long as it’s to our benefit, I don’t care… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 He's gone to Chelsea to become the highest playing time teen in the UK. We should have offered him more playing time. What's the market exchange rate on playing time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: He's gone to Chelsea to become the highest playing time teen in the UK. We should have offered him more playing time. What's the market exchange rate on playing time? Since Tuchel is doing the signings at Chelsea he will at least have told him what his expectations will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 46 minutes ago, DJ_Villain said: I don’t get what the problem is here… As long as it’s to our benefit, I don’t care… Which is why you don't visualise the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 3, 2022 Moderator Share Posted August 3, 2022 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 2 hours ago, StanBalaban said: 1 minute ago, BOF said: @BOF 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 2 hours ago, villa4europe said: The thing with Chelsea isn't that James, Mount and chalobah have broken through or before them Christensen, CHO and RLC it's that they lost to us in the next gen final, they won the reserve league in 2011, 2013, 2020, under 18s league in 2017 and 2018 and the Southern league 4 times, the youth CL in 2015 and 2016, the FA youth Cup 7 times in the last 10 years, under 18s Cup twice, under 16s Cup... They've properly dominated youth football for a decade... And had 6 players come through in that time, only 2 of which are really key players for them Its not a good look Wait, what's not the good look here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted August 3, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted August 3, 2022 I hope he rots in their reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 18 minutes ago, bobzy said: Wait, what's not the good look here? chelsea bought in a ton of youngsters from all over the country, won everything at youth level with an incredibly successful youth team between 2010-2020 but not many of them got the opportunity in their first team they were just loaned out, we won 1 FA youth cup and look at the buzz around us, they won 7 they seem to have learned the lesson because their current team does contain a few of them but over the last decade they've cast aside so many, their CB issues this summer after they sold 2 England international CBs last summer who came through their youth set up for example, the last england squad had 3 players that chelsea cashed in on rather than keep they've produced 2 first choice starters from all that silverware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Carney has finally gone................Yyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Wonder if JT helped push this one through, know he’s involved again at Chelsea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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