Cameron Archer

[barry'sboots]

10 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

He reminds me a little Of Andy Weimann, and his pathway with this sudden burst of goals is also similar. I'm sure some will see that as a low bar, but Weimann scored 24 goals for us and went on to have a very decent career.

 

I think he could have had an even better career if he had been used properly.  He seems to have been recognised as an attacker and then pushed out wide because he is not big enough to be a "9".  He doesn't have the pace or trickery to play as a wide player imho.

The game we won at Liverpool showed that he is best as a second striker/"10" where he is able to use his energy to disturb the pivot/playmaker - he really upset Gerard's game that day - and then break quickly to support the "9". 

[TRO]

22 hours ago, Nicho said:

Assume that is why there are specific youth scouts.

I played with a few lads that got picked up by Leicester, West Brom and Cov when we were playing youth. Granted none of them made it but they wernt even the standouts (from my or any parents/coaches point of view). They were obviously doing somethat that was liked and that a game could be built around rather than having everything you need at that time. 

Archer has that knack of finding space, imagine that set him out early. 

He also has the knack of striking the ball so cleanly.

I get what you are saying....I just think that young players develop at different rates, and that makes it tough to appraise...its subject to a  certain amount of luck imo..

[useless]

i bet Solihull are asking themselves now why they didn't use him more, to be fair his goals to minutes ratio is pretty good for them and bearing in mind he also played out wide a lot whist there. I always found it strange how he'd do well one game but then they'd randomly drop him for the next, maybe had an underlying injury they had to manage, I know he missed a couple of months around the new year with some sort of muscle strain. They've also got Kyle Hudlin who's been linked with a lot of football league sides and Man City, I think he's the reason why Archer played wide a lot.

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, useless said:

i bet Solihull are asking themselves now why they didn't use him more, to be fair his goals to minutes ratio is pretty good for them and bearing in mind he also played out wide a lot whist there. I always found it strange how he'd do well one game but then they'd randomly drop him for the next, maybe had an underlying injury they had to manage, I know he missed a couple of months around the new year with some sort of muscle strain. They've also got Kyle Hudlin who's been linked with a lot of football league sides and Man City, I think he's the reason why Archer played wide a lot.

Sometimes, it just clicks.....look at Platty.

[WHY]

9 minutes ago, useless said:

i bet Solihull are asking themselves now why they didn't use him more, to be fair his goals to minutes ratio is pretty good for them and bearing in mind he also played out wide a lot whist there. I always found it strange how he'd do well one game but then they'd randomly drop him for the next, maybe had an underlying injury they had to manage, I know he missed a couple of months around the new year with some sort of muscle strain. They've also got Kyle Hudlin who's been linked with a lot of football league sides and Man City, I think he's the reason why Archer played wide a lot.

Look at Harry Kane’s record out on loan. You wouldn’t believe he would go on to potentially be England’s all time leading goal scorer.

[peterw]

On 06/10/2021 at 23:28, Nicho said:

Assume that is why there are specific youth scouts.

I played with a few lads that got picked up by Leicester, West Brom and Cov when we were playing youth. Granted none of them made it but they wernt even the standouts (from my or any parents/coaches point of view). They were obviously doing somethat that was liked and that a game could be built around rather than having everything you need at that time. 

Archer has that knack of finding space, imagine that set him out early. 

At any level - but specifically youth - stand outs aren't necessarily the be all of a scouts mission. Yes, the ability to do the basics are a necessity and those that do things better than most will get noticed. but for a scout - and a coach - there are more important factors. Ability beats all but it has to remembered that ability at a younger age group tends to be evened out as a player develops physically, and a great 8 yra-old finds themselves just one of a number of good players when they're 12. Same for an 18 year-old when they become physically mature.

What a coach/scout is looking for more than anything after the intial ability is decision-making. Mistakes can happen and are accepted, as long as it was a mistake trying to do the right thing, from an over hit pass to a teammate not seeing what could have been a good ball so a mistake followed (pass intercepted, caught in possession etc). At an early age you can work and develop half decent players if they have shown they are decision-makers better than their age group. From reading a game, to knowing when to make that pass, to (stand up Ashley Westwood) knowing were teammates should be standing or which space needs covering (a good old point does the trick); and so on. 

 

Decision-makers also tend to be winners. They won't panic at 0-1 or 0-2 as they will keep their heads whilst trying to get back into a game. From that you can see leaders. It doesn't need to be captain material but those that will not accept defeat during a game and will keep pushing to get back into the game. It's as much, if not more, mental based at the younger age group. Yes, you have talent but have you got quite simply, a football brain. Many great young players don't and fall by the wayside. Many okay/average/decent players have it, and coaches/scouts will pick up those they think has a chance to be developed into a pro. They don't all make it, and most won't, which is where the elite players come from. because they do. They hone all the skills looked for in a player.

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, peterw said:

At any level - but specifically youth - stand outs aren't necessarily the be all of a scouts mission. Yes, the ability to do the basics are a necessity and those that do things better than most will get noticed. but for a scout - and a coach - there are more important factors. Ability beats all but it has to remembered that ability at a younger age group tends to be evened out as a player develops physically, and a great 8 yra-old finds themselves just one of a number of good players when they're 12. Same for an 18 year-old when they become physically mature.

What a coach/scout is looking for more than anything after the intial ability is decision-making. Mistakes can happen and are accepted, as long as it was a mistake trying to do the right thing, from an over hit pass to a teammate not seeing what could have been a good ball so a mistake followed (pass intercepted, caught in possession etc). At an early age you can work and develop half decent players if they have shown they are decision-makers better than their age group. From reading a game, to knowing when to make that pass, to (stand up Ashley Westwood) knowing were teammates should be standing or which space needs covering (a good old point does the trick); and so on. 

 

Decision-makers also tend to be winners. They won't panic at 0-1 or 0-2 as they will keep their heads whilst trying to get back into a game. From that you can see leaders. It doesn't need to be captain material but those that will not accept defeat during a game and will keep pushing to get back into the game. It's as much, if not more, mental based at the younger age group. Yes, you have talent but have you got quite simply, a football brain. Many great young players don't and fall by the wayside. Many okay/average/decent players have it, and coaches/scouts will pick up those they think has a chance to be developed into a pro. They don't all make it, and most won't, which is where the elite players come from. because they do. They hone all the skills looked for in a player.

100% agree with this. If we compare the debuts of Carney and JPB with that of, say, Indiana Vassilev, we can see a massive difference in their approach to the game mentally. The first two seemed cold as ice - not fazed by the situation at all, just calm and collected, whereas IV looked like a rabbit caught in headlights. It's not easy to predict how a player will react to the step up but I guess that's where scouts earn their corn. 

[HKP90]

1 hour ago, peterw said:

At any level - but specifically youth - stand outs aren't necessarily the be all of a scouts mission. Yes, the ability to do the basics are a necessity and those that do things better than most will get noticed. but for a scout - and a coach - there are more important factors. Ability beats all but it has to remembered that ability at a younger age group tends to be evened out as a player develops physically, and a great 8 yra-old finds themselves just one of a number of good players when they're 12. Same for an 18 year-old when they become physically mature.

What a coach/scout is looking for more than anything after the intial ability is decision-making. Mistakes can happen and are accepted, as long as it was a mistake trying to do the right thing, from an over hit pass to a teammate not seeing what could have been a good ball so a mistake followed (pass intercepted, caught in possession etc). At an early age you can work and develop half decent players if they have shown they are decision-makers better than their age group. From reading a game, to knowing when to make that pass, to (stand up Ashley Westwood) knowing were teammates should be standing or which space needs covering (a good old point does the trick); and so on. 

 

Decision-makers also tend to be winners. They won't panic at 0-1 or 0-2 as they will keep their heads whilst trying to get back into a game. From that you can see leaders. It doesn't need to be captain material but those that will not accept defeat during a game and will keep pushing to get back into the game. It's as much, if not more, mental based at the younger age group. Yes, you have talent but have you got quite simply, a football brain. Many great young players don't and fall by the wayside. Many okay/average/decent players have it, and coaches/scouts will pick up those they think has a chance to be developed into a pro. They don't all make it, and most won't, which is where the elite players come from. because they do. They hone all the skills looked for in a player.

Excellent post.

[VBM]

6 hours ago, peterw said:

At any level - but specifically youth - stand outs aren't necessarily the be all of a scouts mission. Yes, the ability to do the basics are a necessity and those that do things better than most will get noticed. but for a scout - and a coach - there are more important factors. Ability beats all but it has to remembered that ability at a younger age group tends to be evened out as a player develops physically, and a great 8 yra-old finds themselves just one of a number of good players when they're 12. Same for an 18 year-old when they become physically mature.

What a coach/scout is looking for more than anything after the intial ability is decision-making. Mistakes can happen and are accepted, as long as it was a mistake trying to do the right thing, from an over hit pass to a teammate not seeing what could have been a good ball so a mistake followed (pass intercepted, caught in possession etc). At an early age you can work and develop half decent players if they have shown they are decision-makers better than their age group. From reading a game, to knowing when to make that pass, to (stand up Ashley Westwood) knowing were teammates should be standing or which space needs covering (a good old point does the trick); and so on. 

 

Decision-makers also tend to be winners. They won't panic at 0-1 or 0-2 as they will keep their heads whilst trying to get back into a game. From that you can see leaders. It doesn't need to be captain material but those that will not accept defeat during a game and will keep pushing to get back into the game. It's as much, if not more, mental based at the younger age group. Yes, you have talent but have you got quite simply, a football brain. Many great young players don't and fall by the wayside. Many okay/average/decent players have it, and coaches/scouts will pick up those they think has a chance to be developed into a pro. They don't all make it, and most won't, which is where the elite players come from. because they do. They hone all the skills looked for in a player.

I know a guy - who captained England school boys as it was then, was at Arsenal all through the Youth academy. When we were at secondary school it was like he was worth 3 players, he was just so much better than everyone else. 

He didn't make it. Now, he went on to have a "good" career as in played county level non league until his late thirties  - was paid to play all this time etc. He said pretty much exactly this about his trajectory,  at a certain point he stopped progressing, others just kept on improving, their decision making got better his didn't. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by VBM

[OutByEaster?]

I hadn't realised Archer was from such a football family, there's a nice little article here:

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2021/10/01/matt-maher-siblings-are-striking-out/

Quote

 

The 20-year-old is the youngest of four brothers, all of whom have careers in professional and non-league football, all four as strikers. Neither do the links end there. Their uncle, Andy McFarlane, played up front for Portsmouth and Swansea during the 1990s, winning the Auto Windscreens Shield at Wembley with the latter in 1994.

“The striker thing is dad’s fault,” laughs Jordan, who has played in the Football League with Bury and Port Vale and is currently with Southport. “He just wanted goalscorers and wouldn’t allow us to play anywhere else!”

 

 

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I hadn't realised Archer was from such a football family, there's a nice little article here:

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2021/10/01/matt-maher-siblings-are-striking-out/

 

Read that last week, its a good thing for him to have people like that in the background who will keep him focused and grounded hopefully.

[gaffer85]

When should this lad get his chance,

Banging in goals every time he plays at the minute

[string28]

3 minutes ago, gaffer85 said:

When should this lad get his chance,

Banging in goals every time he plays at the minute

Got to get a chance this season looks class.

[gaffer85]

3 minutes ago, string28 said:

Got to get a chance this season looks class.

Ya definitely how he hasn't got more minutes off the bench really is a mystery 

[OutByEaster?]

I think it'll be difficult - there's every chance that either Ings or Watkins will be on the bench soon. 

I think he'd probably benefit from a loan.

[string28]

2 minutes ago, gaffer85 said:

Ya definitely how he hasn't got more minutes off the bench really is a mystery 

He looks ready to be on the bench now and coming on when we need something different.

[string28]

2 minutes ago, gaffer85 said:

Ya definitely how he hasn't got more minutes off the bench really is a mystery 

He looks ready to be on the bench now and coming on when we need something different.

[Follyfoot]

3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think it'll be difficult - there's every chance that either Ings or Watkins will be on the bench soon. 

I think he'd probably benefit from a loan.

Maybe, I suspect when he has his chance off the bench and scores, which to be honest he will at some point he will become impossible to drop. The lad has something that it is impossible to teach.I do not think he needs a loan move

[MaVilla]

7 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think it'll be difficult - there's every chance that either Ings or Watkins will be on the bench soon. 

I think he'd probably benefit from a loan.

agree, i wonder if a Champ club might be interested in him?, whichever, he needs to be playing week in week out.

[string28]

1 minute ago, Follyfoot said:

Maybe, I suspect when he has his chance off the bench and scores, which to be honest he will at some point he will become impossible to drop. The lad has something that it is impossible to teach.I do not think he needs a loan move

I agree this kid is something we might just need and i would give him the chance.