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Tomaszk

Wesley Moraes

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37 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Benteke showed quite a lot more in his first 5 games IMO. For me Wesley has talent, I'm not clear whether he's going to realise it consistently but fingers crossed. I am however concerned at his capability in front of goal, his record at Brugge wasn't very good, Benteke had a good record at Genk when he arrived here. I'm seeing Wesley being haphazard in front of goal here (awful miss the other day) but crucially not have the instinct or desire to get into good positions in the box.

Looking back at that old Benteke thread I was defending him after 5 games and confident in him. Wesley hasn't shown me enough to be as confident.

 

I agree, Wes hasn't looked anywhere near as good as Benteke. He looks scared and out his depth.

Step one is to get some aggression to his game. There's no desire to get the ball, which is the opposite to what the reviews of him were when he arrived. There's hope along with plenty of work to do.

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We average a goal a game and have only failed to scored in 1. Wes needs to improve but it’s hardly a crisis in an attacking sense.

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When we're fending off bids from Arsenal, Borussia Dortmund, Lazio and Chinese clubs, we'll look back on these posts and say something like 'it just goes to show you shouldn't write players off'.

Edited by useless

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Hoping he has the explosion that Benteke had in late 2012. Nobody saw that coming from his early season performances. He just needed time to get into his stride.

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There’s a player in there for me, I think his biggest issue is the current style of play. Seems far happier linking the play and playing on the shoulder of the last man with service along the deck than he does attacking crosses for example.

Ultimately his skill set lends him to being some sort of bargain Benzema or Firmino, not massively prolific but a great foil for talented wingers/midfielders. Our issue is those wingers/midfielders aren’t getting close enough to him. I’d love him to be a 20 goal man, I like the kid, however I feel his greatest statistical impact on our games will be assists in time, might need to grow to accept that here. As villa fans a number 9 is meant to be our prolific goal getter, might need a change of mindset on our behalf.

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19 hours ago, Villarocker said:

I think you make a lot of great points TRO. 

Wes needs to man-up a bit and shrug off some of the attention he's getting from opposing players. 

I am a kean spotter of "manning up".......Dare I say, I am not sure Wes falls in to a category of my criticism of the subject, I think his frustration at being fouled is consuming him, granted.......but,He is having to contend with too much fouling.

In the main its because he cannot break free, due to the ponderous and hesitant play elsewhere in the team.

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3 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Benteke showed quite a lot more in his first 5 games IMO. For me Wesley has talent, I'm not clear whether he's going to realise it consistently but fingers crossed. I am however concerned at his capability in front of goal, his record at Brugge wasn't very good, Benteke had a good record at Genk when he arrived here. I'm seeing Wesley being haphazard in front of goal here (awful miss the other day) but crucially not have the instinct or desire to get into good positions in the box.

Looking back at that old Benteke thread I was defending him after 5 games and confident in him. Wesley hasn't shown me enough to be as confident.

 

Despite his short comings, weimann had the effervescence and intensity that Benteke capitalised on.......Wes has nothing of the sort to support him or play off.

We need a pacey player to be close to Wes to unnerve the opposition, Wes is being closed down too easily, because of the lack of such an ingredient from our team.

We need some pace up front in a supporting role.

Edited by TRO
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5 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

Keep seeing people saying tammy was poor at swansea, doesn't really tell the whole truth does it

He was only 19 when the season kicked off

It was only his second ever season, playing in a league higher than he was used to and for a completely different team.

Turns out that swansea team were crap & only won 8 games all year.

He only actually started 15 league games (+6 cup games) & averaged 57 minutes played per game so more of a bit part player than someone playing 90 minutes week in, week out.

In total (including cup games) he made 39 appearances, 18 of these were as a sub. He scored 8 goals & got 5 assists.

In 38 league games swansea as a whole managed a pathetic 28 goals. He got 5 of them (18%) despite only starting 39% of their games

Whoa there. I wasn't saying Tammy was poor at Swansea. Someone said he was a natural born goal scorer who would bang in 20 goals wherever he played, and then quoted his stats at Bristol. My point was that the following season he showed little sign that he was born to bang in the goals.

I really rate Tammy, but I don't have him in the Darren Bent bracket of consistently scoring at least 1 in 3 wherever he plays, even in teams that end up getting relegated. That isn't Tammy's game. He's a superb all-round striker, but he doesn't put every single chance away - we saw that last year.

As for the Wesley comparisons, it just all feels a bit apples and oranges. People are comparing:

  • a raw, unfinished, 22-year-old Wesley, who doesn't speak great English, has had a really disrupted upbringing, and has never played at any level above Belgian league
  • with Tammy who has been carefully nurtured through the system by Chelsea and England, going on loan to good Championship sides, with good managers, playing with people he already knew from England age group teams

Wesley needs a lot of work, but give him a chance. The Everton game alone has given us enough reassurance that he is capable of dominating a match.

I actually think the introduction of Nakamba into the squad will allow Wesley to shine. As Nakamba finds full match fitness and gets up to speed, that will free our other midfielders to push higher, and bring Wesley into the game more. It also means we have the option of playing Luiz in centre mid, with Grealish or McGinn pushed out wide. All of these things will give Wesley a lot more space and time on the ball to find his rhythm.

 

Edited by KentVillan
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18 minutes ago, TRO said:

Despite his short comings, weimann had the effervescence and intensity that Benteke capitalised on.......Wes has nothing of the sort to support him or play off.

We need a pacey player to be close to Wes to unnerve the opposition, Wes is being closed down to easily, because of the lack of such an ingredient from our team.

We need some pace up front in a supporting role.

I think Trezeguet can be that player

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2 hours ago, thunderball said:

Aston Villa not scoring goals: blame the new striker.

Well he's a striker isn't he? If he's not scoring goals nor getting any assists he isn't doing his job very well.

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6 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

I think Trezeguet can be that player

Obviously, I am hoping you are right.

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1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

Well he's a striker isn't he? If he's not scoring goals nor getting any assists he isn't doing his job very well.

Well Arsene Wenger said quote " Teams score goals"

I tend to think he is right.....Of course a striker needs to finish things off, but the approach play is so important too.....that requires others to get their game right to create a cohesive unit.

Its like a clock all the wheels and levers need to be in sync and timing is the key.

Its not so much a question of confidence in his own ability.....its more a question of his confidence in the players around him to play him in ( hence the goal against Everton)

The synchronisation is not quite there yet.....when it is, we will see a different player for the better.

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2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

I agree, Wes hasn't looked anywhere near as good as Benteke. He looks scared and out his depth.

Step one is to get some aggression to his game. There's no desire to get the ball, which is the opposite to what the reviews of him were when he arrived. There's hope along with plenty of work to do.

I respect your view.....but I don't see that.

I don't think he lacks aggression.....I think he is struggling to link with players i.e wingers who may lack aggression and it is resulting in semi static play and subsequently is being easily fouled....He need to do more of his work on the move and to do that he needs supporting players who are equally on the move and finding him.......all the front work is too predictable, ponderous, hesitant and easily negated by the opposition.

We must find a way up front of springing the element of surprise.

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2 hours ago, The Inspiration said:

There’s a player in there for me, I think his biggest issue is the current style of play. Seems far happier linking the play and playing on the shoulder of the last man with service along the deck than he does attacking crosses for example.

Ultimately his skill set lends him to being some sort of bargain Benzema or Firmino, not massively prolific but a great foil for talented wingers/midfielders. Our issue is those wingers/midfielders aren’t getting close enough to him. I’d love him to be a 20 goal man, I like the kid, however I feel his greatest statistical impact on our games will be assists in time, might need to grow to accept that here. As villa fans a number 9 is meant to be our prolific goal getter, might need a change of mindset on our behalf.

Ditto

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3 hours ago, The Inspiration said:

There’s a player in there for me, I think his biggest issue is the current style of play. Seems far happier linking the play and playing on the shoulder of the last man with service along the deck than he does attacking crosses for example.

Ultimately his skill set lends him to being some sort of bargain Benzema or Firmino, not massively prolific but a great foil for talented wingers/midfielders. Our issue is those wingers/midfielders aren’t getting close enough to him. I’d love him to be a 20 goal man, I like the kid, however I feel his greatest statistical impact on our games will be assists in time, might need to grow to accept that here. As villa fans a number 9 is meant to be our prolific goal getter, might need a change of mindset on our behalf.

Firmino is hard to close down or negate........because of the other 2 bumble bees, that have the opposition all over the gaff.....not dismissing his astute reading of the game and his subsequent positional play which is exquisite.

We need live wires in support to see the true Wes.

Edited by TRO

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I was watching Wesley closely on Monday and i think it's a mixture of things which are causing his ineffectiveness.

He's not used to the physicality of the Prem that appears obvious and is struggling to shake off his fundamental instincts to just go down when he feels contact. With the Prem being a lot more physical & quicker than the Belgian league he is not getting the decisions in the same way and instead often gifting teams possession  which they then use to rapidly counter on us. I really think he is struggling here & often beats the ground in frustration as he is stuck between his instinct (go down and likely would have got a free kick in Belgian league) or try to stay strong which is a little foreign to him so he doesn't currently do that brilliantly either, again often then losing possession as more Prem experienced players take advantage of his uncertainty.

This is affecting his confidence no doubt.

Then there is his rather weak heading ability, he missed a good chance against West Ham with a headed effort. This appears to be creating uncertainty in our midfield & wide players as every time they cross to him he simply doesn't get there or the ball is quite easily headed clear, then on the odd one he does get his head on it's usually a poor effort. We saw this on Monday when i lost count of the times Grealish got into a good space but could not see a pass on and appeared reluctant to just cross to Wesley as he was being far too easliy marked out of the game when in the area. This resulted in a frankly embarrassing number of wasted passes from Grealish... Not all Wesley's fault of course but it wasn't helping.

His positional sense seems off too when in the area. I don't think it helps that he is often isolated & on his own & thus far too easily marked by a packed defence.

What he is good at is bringing others into play when the ball is moving quickly through midfield but it's 9/10 times a pass wide which he delivers rather than putting someone through on goal.. so again we have someone then in a good position out wide but with nobody in the middle to pick out.

It's quite a weird conundrum really and i don't know what the answer is with our current formation.

We really do need another striker and no sadly i don't see Davies as the answer as he is like Heskey MK11.

As for Kodija well he's looked awful in his couple of cameo appearances so far.

I am happy with the team in defence & central midfield and we will get better still there hopefully as they settle more. But out wide & up top we are not right. Lacking real pace, intelligence & movement and worst of all a striker who will score regularly.

Maybe Deano can find an answer... He needs to quickly

 

On to Arsenal away, i don't expect anything from there but i just want to see some threat from those front players

Wesley, Trez, El Ghazi & Davies you all need to step up guys

 

 

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6 hours ago, TRO said:

I respect your view.....but I don't see that.

I don't think he lacks aggression.....I think he is struggling to link with players i.e wingers who may lack aggression and it is resulting in semi static play and subsequently is being easily fouled....He need to do more of his work on the move and to do that he needs supporting players who are equally on the move and finding him.......all the front work is too predictable, ponderous, hesitant and easily negated by the opposition.

We must find a way up front of springing the element of surprise.

I was just going to reply to the same post but you've said it for me 😊

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I think the answer is to narrow the attack somewhat and try not to find ourselves with the ball on the left/right hand side of the 18-yard box, rather getting the ball in more central positions so we've got 5 players who could shoot, pass to, make runs etc. (ST, LW, RW, 2xCMs) 

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13 hours ago, thunderball said:

Aston Villa not scoring goals: blame the new striker.

well that's a very simplistic way of looking at the criticism he's been getting.

any of the keepers we've faced had a MOTM performance because of all their saves from wesley's attempts? or any real saves of note for that matter? assists? my criticism of him is that he's been absent in all games except everton and throws himself to the deck when he should be holding it up. personally i think these are valid criticisms.

and the latter point i'd have expected an improvement by game 5, but that dive at the end of the west ham game disgusted me. over the years i've been pleased that we dont tend to have players like that, even those we sign from overseas, and i'm gutted that now we have one (well 2, trez has that in him too). so perhaps i'd feel differently about his performances if he didnt do that...maybe i'd cut him some slack...who knows. i just dont see a player there at this point in time. if i'm wrong, humble pie will never have tasted so good

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