Wesley Moraes

[useless]

Fact of the matter is our wide players might not be that good at Premier league level, Jota was playing for small heath last season, Trezeguet was playing in the Turkish league, and El Ghazi didn't get much in the way of goals and assists for us last season. As well as his sixteen goals, Wesley also got ten assists last season which shows that he needs quality players around him who he can bring into the game, and who can finish off the chances he can create, if we had better wingers/wide forwards, or if the ones we already have were to improve, then I think we'd see Wesley having more of an impact on games, same for Grealish who also needs players in the final third on his wavelength.

[Keyblade]

5 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Last year we would have been saying "This is why I have doubts that Tammy would make it in the Premier League" lol.

It is as if people have forgotten how many sitters Tammy missed, and how many chances he used to need to score.

Granted he scored a shedload, in a lower league, where we were one of the stronger teams in the League,and is now scoring.

However a question, do you think he would be scoring the same way in THIS current Villa team, in the PL?

Would Wesley score more in that Chelsea team?

I believe so, for obvious reasons.

Tammy always excelled in those 1 touch finishes where you can't think too much about where to put it. Those headers from whipped in crosses where you almost have to hit it with the back of your head because it's behind you? That's Tammy's joint right there. Scored one of them on the weekend against Wolves. A good example for us was in the crazy 5-5 game, his first goal iirc.

To be fair to Wes, most strikers bar the most instinctive of finishers would have done as he did. Not knocking him at all. Just thinking to myself that Tammy, a very specific example mind, would have taken that chance. 

That said, I think Tammy would have had 3-4 goals for us right now compared to Wesley's 1. He makes those nearpost runs more frequently and potently than Wes does, and we're a team that's constantly whipping in crosses to the near post. So we're probably not set up to play to Wes' strengths, but it's also something he can incorporate into his game. I also don't think Wes would be sitting on 7 goals for Chelsea right now either, to fully answer your question.

[villan-scott]

5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Quite a trip down memory lane regarding departed posters that. 

Whatever happened to Richard, was one of the most prolific posters!

[PaulC]

It doesn't always follow that just because you are playing for a better team you will score more goals. Tammy is just a natural goalscorer. He scored 20 odd goals for Bristol city when he was 18/19. 

[TRO]

I know he has to deal with it.....but the guy is being pulled from pillar to post. In short he is being fouled and they are getting away with it.....quite often he was wriggling from a pulled shirt or a grabbed arm....its simply fouling.

What makes it more difficult for him, in the way of being static, is the wingers are slow and predictable......We need pace from the flanks which would allow Wes to get away from his markers easier.

I am not sure a player like Pukki would work in our team as some have suggested....our build up is too slow.

Edited September 19, 2019 by TRO

[KentVillan]

4 hours ago, PaulC said:

It doesn't always follow that just because you are playing for a better team you will score more goals. Tammy is just a natural goalscorer. He scored 20 odd goals for Bristol city when he was 18/19. 

Tammy scored 5 goals for Swansea the season after. It's not that simple. Tammy has been very fortunate to step up from a top 5 Championship side playing attacking football to a top 5 Premier League side playing attacking football.

[Villarocker]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I know he has to deal with it.....but the guy is being pulled from pillar to post. In short he is being fouled and they are getting away with it.....quite often he was wriggling from a pulled shirt or a grabbed arm....its simply fouling.

What makes it more difficult for him, in the way of being static, is the wingers are slow and predictable......We need pace from the flanks which would allow Wes to get away from his markers easier.

I am not sure a player like Pukki would work in our team as some have suggested....our build up is too slow.

I think you make a lot of great points TRO. 

Wes needs to man-up a bit and shrug off some of the attention he's getting from opposing players. 

[KentVillan]

26 minutes ago, Villarocker said:

I think you make a lot of great points TRO. 

Wes needs to man-up a bit and shrug off some of the attention he's getting from opposing players. 

I don't think it's about manning up. He can definitely handle the attention, he just needs to get a bit smarter with when / how he goes down, and how he finds space when he's being marked.

[HKP90]

14 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Tammy always excelled in those 1 touch finishes where you can't think too much about where to put it. Those headers from whipped in crosses where you almost have to hit it with the back of your head because it's behind you? That's Tammy's joint right there. Scored one of them on the weekend against Wolves. A good example for us was in the crazy 5-5 game, his first goal iirc.

To be fair to Wes, most strikers bar the most instinctive of finishers would have done as he did. Not knocking him at all. Just thinking to myself that Tammy, a very specific example mind, would have taken that chance. 

That said, I think Tammy would have had 3-4 goals for us right now compared to Wesley's 1. He makes those nearpost runs more frequently and potently than Wes does, and we're a team that's constantly whipping in crosses to the near post. So we're probably not set up to play to Wes' strengths, but it's also something he can incorporate into his game. I also don't think Wes would be sitting on 7 goals for Chelsea right now either, to fully answer your question.

I think you are underestimating how many chances Tammy needed last season before netting. That was in an inferior league when our creative players were able to fashion those chances. Yes he’s doing well at Chelsea, but look at the quality of his team mates. Put wes in that Chelsea team and he’d also score. It’s mightily unfair imo to lay the blame solely at Wes. He’s not getting the support he needs, especially since he traditionally occupied a deeper role than Tammy.

We’re asking him to lead the line now, which is a bit of a change for him too. He needs both time and creative support. In retrospect we needed to get another 1 or 2 wide men/inside forwards with quality, but remember we also had to build an entire team.

I think we did what we could to field a competitive team, and we’re now in a position where 1 or 2 players would make us a quality side, rather than 5 or 6. 

I expect us to use this period to consolidate and bed in, and maybe try to get some quality in Jan. If we do that we’ll be mid table. Our defence is perfectly capable, which is probably the hardest and most important piece of the puzzle to get right.

[Mic09]

I don't know if you recall but in the last 10 mins or so, he had a chance where he was in the box running from the left side and could have crossed it, beaten the man or just taken a shot.

He was very slow in making the decision, and simply lost the ball to the defender, although he had a lot of time to make a good play out of it. I thought that any other striker in the league could have done something more productive and wouldn't have lost it so easily. 

At that point I thought - 'this guy is good, but he isn't a premier league starter'.

I think we should look to buy a striker that Wesley can learn from and we will have a solid player in 12 months time. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, Mic09 said:

I don't know if you recall but in the last 10 mins or so, he had a chance where he was in the box running from the left side and could have crossed it, beaten the man or just taken a shot.

He was very slow in making the decision, and simply lost the ball to the defender, although he had a lot of time to make a good play out of it. I thought that any other striker in the league could have done something more productive and wouldn't have lost it so easily. 

At that point I thought - 'this guy is good, but he isn't a premier league starter'.

I think we should look to buy a striker that Wesley can learn from and we will have a solid player in 12 months time. 

You could literally add the section in bold next to every player in the team, INCLUDING JACK. 

[ozvillafan]

22 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Quite a trip down memory lane regarding departed posters that. 

I don't want to blow my own trumpet, but

I see similar in Wesley and in our squad.

 

[Mic09]

4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

You could literally add the section in bold next to every player in the team, INCLUDING JACK. 

I was gonna make that point actually. I think that Jack or John would have just turned and put their body in the way, maybe looking for a foul in the box.

Big Wes didn't.

[The Inspiration]

2 hours ago, Mic09 said:

I don't know if you recall but in the last 10 mins or so, he had a chance where he was in the box running from the left side and could have crossed it, beaten the man or just taken a shot.

He was very slow in making the decision, and simply lost the ball to the defender, although he had a lot of time to make a good play out of it. I thought that any other striker in the league could have done something more productive and wouldn't have lost it so easily. 

At that point I thought - 'this guy is good, but he isn't a premier league starter'.

I think we should look to buy a striker that Wesley can learn from and we will have a solid player in 12 months time. 

Players get tired in the last ten minutes, especially ones with large frames to carry around who have been leading the line by themselves for 80 minutes. Might have contributed a bit to the situation you highlight.

Can’t say I disagree with the rest too much, I like him and think he will come good mind you.

[Mic09]

44 minutes ago, The Inspiration said:

Players get tired in the last ten minutes, especially ones with large frames to carry around who have been leading the line by themselves for 80 minutes. Might have contributed a bit to the situation you highlight.

Can’t say I disagree with the rest too much, I like him and think he will come good mind you.

Yeah I thought that too, but I specifically remembered that bit of play because he didn't look like he was out of steam, it looked like someone who isn't very good and doesn't really know what to do if that makes sense.

[LakotaDakota]

14 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Tammy scored 5 goals for Swansea the season after. It's not that simple. Tammy has been very fortunate to step up from a top 5 Championship side playing attacking football to a top 5 Premier League side playing attacking football.

Keep seeing people saying tammy was poor at swansea, doesn't really tell the whole truth does it

He was only 19 when the season kicked off

It was only his second ever season, playing in a league higher than he was used to and for a completely different team.

Turns out that swansea team were crap & only won 8 games all year.

He only actually started 15 league games (+6 cup games) & averaged 57 minutes played per game so more of a bit part player than someone playing 90 minutes week in, week out.

In total (including cup games) he made 39 appearances, 18 of these were as a sub. He scored 8 goals & got 5 assists.

In 38 league games swansea as a whole managed a pathetic 28 goals. He got 5 of them (18%) despite only starting 39% of their games

[Lerner's Driver]

21 hours ago, villan-scott said:

Whatever happened to Richard, was one of the most prolific posters!

He posts on Villa Facebook groups now in the same haughty style he did here. I once asked him why he left VT and he said he was hounded off after receiving death threats.

[Keyblade]

Just now, Lerner's Driver said:

He posts on Villa Facebook groups now in the same haughty style he did here. I once asked him why he left VT and he said he was hounded off after receiving death threats.

Yikes. Turns out he was justified in his negativity too. Everything was shit back then.

[PaulC]

16 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Tammy scored 5 goals for Swansea the season after. It's not that simple. Tammy has been very fortunate to step up from a top 5 Championship side playing attacking football to a top 5 Premier League side playing attacking football.

What was he 19 when at Swansea. I don’t agree Tammy did it at Bristol he would have done it at any championship side. We were the fortunate ones.

[Dr_Pangloss]

Benteke showed quite a lot more in his first 5 games IMO. For me Wesley has talent, I'm not clear whether he's going to realise it consistently but fingers crossed. I am however concerned at his capability in front of goal, his record at Brugge wasn't very good, Benteke had a good record at Genk when he arrived here. I'm seeing Wesley being haphazard in front of goal here (awful miss the other day) but crucially not have the instinct or desire to get into good positions in the box.

Looking back at that old Benteke thread I was defending him after 5 games and confident in him. Wesley hasn't shown me enough to be as confident.