Racism Part two

[Vive_La_Villa]

30 minutes ago, Xela said:

I may be way out but I get the feeling education and careers are generally more important to Chinese and Indian families than Pakistani and Bangladeshi families (that's a broad comment and there will obviously be examples where that isn't true). Or perhaps the children of Indian and Chinese people are encouraged more to study by their family? I work with a lot of Asians but 95% are of Indian heritage as opposed to Pakistani or Bangladeshi. I find it curious as to why that is? 

That may well be true. But doesn’t that imply that the issue is not just racial barriers and there more to it?

Im talking from a UK perspective only. The US is way more complex!

[Vive_La_Villa]

44 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Yeah loads. Men and women. British asian and Indian. 

So what advantage did or do Asian people have over black people? If anything in many cases it’s harder for Asians due to different names, languages, cultures etc. A lot of the black community in this country are able to integrate a lot easier than Asians are as they are Christian and have the same language, similar names etc

So why are they held back? The Issue is deeper than just racism in my opinion.  

Edited June 5, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa

[Stevo985]

55 minutes ago, Xela said:

I may be way out but I get the feeling education and careers are generally more important to Chinese and Indian families than Pakistani and Bangladeshi families (that's a broad comment and there will obviously be examples where that isn't true). Or perhaps the children of Indian and Chinese people are encouraged more to study by their family? I work with a lot of Asians but 95% are of Indian heritage as opposed to Pakistani or Bangladeshi. I find it curious as to why that is? 

It’s anecdotal evidence, but in my time at university the Chinese students (as in foreign student, not Chinese-British) were by far the most studious.

Don’t know if it’s a cultural thing

[Vive_La_Villa]

24 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

It’s anecdotal evidence, but in my time at university the Chinese students (as in foreign student, not Chinese-British) were by far the most studious.

Don’t know if it’s a cultural thing

To be fair If you have sent your kid to England for an education and paid the extortionate fees they better bloody study.  Uni’s here are regarded as the best in the world.

But if they don’t study hard they are sorted anyway as family must be pretty well off to send them in the first place, 

Speaking for myself I completely messed up uni but my parent didn’t have to pay a penny because of their earnings. Had they have had to pay large fees to get me there I’d probably have taken it a bit more seriously.

[PaulC]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

It’s anecdotal evidence, but in my time at university the Chinese students (as in foreign student, not Chinese-British) were by far the most studious.

Don’t know if it’s a cultural thing

Some time ago for me me but Chinese and Indian were most studious when I was at College

[HanoiVillan]

As somebody who teaches Chinese students (not just ethnically Chinese, but from China) at a UK university, I can confirm that there are smart ones, thick ones, studious ones, lazy ones and everything in between. That being said, it simply is true both that a] many East Asian families invest a huge amount in their children's education, so there is often a lot of pressure from parents to do well, and b] school hours tend to be much longer in China, Korea and Japan, so students are used to working for a larger portion of the day. This last point is good in some respects, but really does also cause a lot of problems as well.

[Brumstopdogs]

The link below is an interesting article about the depth of racism/inequality in the US.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-lives-matter-racism-us-inequality-protests-wealth-economic-health-a9545446.html

One example:

US police killings per 1 million population

Black people are 2.5-times more likely to be killed by police than white people.

 

Black

6.6

Hispanic

3.8

White

2.5

Average annual police homicide rate in the US between 1 Jan 2013 and 31 Dec 2019.

Source: MappingPoliceViolence

 

 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

50 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said:

The link below is an interesting article about the depth of racism/inequality in the US.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-lives-matter-racism-us-inequality-protests-wealth-economic-health-a9545446.html

One example:

US police killings per 1 million population

Black people are 2.5-times more likely to be killed by police than white people.

 

Black

6.6

Hispanic

3.8

White

2.5

Average annual police homicide rate in the US between 1 Jan 2013 and 31 Dec 2019.

Source: MappingPoliceViolence

 

 

 

The US is a basket case. The biggest problem in my opinion is guns. Imagine being  police when not only does everyone hate you, they are also likely to be armed. Of course you will be on edge and quick to fire your gun. No sane person would ever take that job.  Cops must have a screw loose.
 

Im so thankful we haven’t got a gun problem here.

[A'Villan]

Was considering attending the BLM rally today but got on the phone to a few African friends who said don't bother, I was already in two minds as Scott Morrison urged people not to attend and while I want to do everything I can to help move towards a world where the hearts and minds of the people can penetrate beyond what is surface level to see the greater good, I'm not about agitating a conservative right wing government by going against their wishes. I've been invited to attend a conference of African's to discuss what can be done, that's tomorrow evening and I feel, I don't know, respected and welcomed is probably apt by the African community, I really appreciate them inviting me to attend.

Edited June 6, 2020 by A'Villan

[KenjiOgiwara]

7 hours ago, Brumstopdogs said:

The link below is an interesting article about the depth of racism/inequality in the US.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-lives-matter-racism-us-inequality-protests-wealth-economic-health-a9545446.html

One example:

US police killings per 1 million population

Black people are 2.5-times more likely to be killed by police than white people.

 

Black

6.6

Hispanic

3.8

White

2.5

Average annual police homicide rate in the US between 1 Jan 2013 and 31 Dec 2019.

Source: MappingPoliceViolence

 

 

 

Out of interest, you got the same time of chart for crimes committed? Murders, police shootings etc.  Loaded question I know, but since we know where the poverty data leads us, I just wonder if the crime supports it. 

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Out of interest, you got the same time of chart for crimes committed? Murders, police shootings etc.  Loaded question I know, but since we know where the poverty data leads us, I just wonder if the crime supports it. 

Which itself is just part of the same loop.

If black people don’t get the jobs and don’t get the pay and just generally don’t get the breaks then they are going to live in relative poverty. That creates ghettos and that’s where the crime happens. So the bad people and the victims are in black areas and that’s where the police brutality happens.

It is a pretty efficient circle. It also still to this day supplies a significant slave workforce for the U.S. organised through the prison system.

It’s not exclusive, but bloody hell it’s loaded against some communities.

[KenjiOgiwara]

6 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Which itself is just part of the same loop.

If black people don’t get the jobs and don’t get the pay and just generally don’t get the breaks then they are going to live in relative poverty. That creates ghettos and that’s where the crime happens. So the bad people and the victims are in black areas and that’s where the police brutality happens.

It is a pretty efficient circle. It also still to this day supplies a significant slave workforce for the U.S. organised through the prison system.

It’s not exclusive, but bloody hell it’s loaded against some communities.

Think everyone knows that. Still would be interesting to see the numbers 

[villa4europe]

58 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Which itself is just part of the same loop.

If black people don’t get the jobs and don’t get the pay and just generally don’t get the breaks then they are going to live in relative poverty. That creates ghettos and that’s where the crime happens. So the bad people and the victims are in black areas and that’s where the police brutality happens.

It is a pretty efficient circle. It also still to this day supplies a significant slave workforce for the U.S. organised through the prison system.

It’s not exclusive, but bloody hell it’s loaded against some communities.

Like I said in the us thread what they’ve then done is weighted the punishments for crimes that traditionally occur in the impoverished “black” areas more harshly than those that traditionally occur in the affluent “white” areas

The comparison of amount to sentence ratio thingy is 18 to 1, you have to be caught with 18x the amount of coke to get the sam3 sentence as being caught with crack...and that’s after Obama admitted it was racist and reduced it down from 100 to 1

under the previous law being caught distributing 500g of coke got you the same sentence as being caught using 5g of crack 

[KentVillan]

17 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

It’s anecdotal evidence, but in my time at university the Chinese students (as in foreign student, not Chinese-British) were by far the most studious.

Don’t know if it’s a cultural thing

I experienced the complete opposite. The Chinese students on my course were mostly the spoilt children of Chinese elites (one lad would drive a supercar around campus!) who were basically enjoying a holiday in the UK. Didn’t pay any attention at all in lectures or tutorials, and were quite disruptive.

So like all these things, probably depends on the context. I was doing a mid career vocational MSc at a London uni. Probably a different story with a different uni / subject.

I wouldn’t take those kids as representative of Chinese people generally, it was just that particular cohort displayed those traits for whatever reason.

Think this is the problem with all racial generalisations. They’re usually based on a narrower set of people than you realise. Many of the great migrations are triggered by specific events in the country of origin or labour shortages in the new country. That’s obviously going to have long term effects on what those families do and how those people are perceived.

[Follyfoot]

I see that the BLM march today has seen Churchill's statue being vandalised to chants of Churchill was a racist and a war mongerer

Beggars beyond belief

 

 

[villa4europe]

Just now, Follyfoot said:

I see that the BLM march today has seen Churchill's statue being vandalised to chants of Churchill was a racist and a war mongerer

Beggars beyond belief

To be fair its documented that if you were polite you could accuse him of being a man of his time, Indians in particular were not his favourite people, the war mongering side of it is a bit far off the mark though

But they should know better, that's the original message lost to a wave of right wing chest thumping 

[Follyfoot]

15 hours ago, villa4europe said:

To be fair its documented that if you were polite you could accuse him of being a man of his time, Indians in particular were not his favourite people, the war mongering side of it is a bit far off the mark though

But they should know better, that's the original message lost to a wave of right wing chest thumping 

The irony is if he had not ‘mongered’ war and we had buckled and fell the racism of which he is now accused would seem small change to the world in which we would now live in

[Davkaus]

It's always a tough one with people that clearly have a bit of a nasty streak, but are known, even revered, for other things, kind of similar to the arguments about separating an artist from their art - I love the books and music of some people that were clearly racist bastards, but their work isn't racist.

Life isn't black and white, people aren't good or evil. Churchill, for all he did in WW2, was a bit of a Representative for Wellingborough. But the statue isn't there for his services to racism.

[sharkyvilla]

15 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

The irony is if he had not ‘mongered’ war and we had buckled and fell the racism of which he is now accused would seem small change to the world in which we would now live in

Yes Churchill is an example of someone who was a bit of a bastard but capable of doing a very important job.  Possibly the most important job of the last two centuries, so I'd say he is just about in credit to put it mildly.

[veloman]

3 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

Yes Churchill is an example of someone who was a bit of a bastard but capable of doing a very important job.  Possibly the most important job of the last two centuries, so I'd say he is just about in credit to put it mildly.

Sounds like Ron Saunders !!