Jareth Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Just now, Only2McInallys said: So should we be destroying statues of Abraham Lincoln? Explain that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Just now, Only2McInallys said: So should we be destroying statues of Abraham Lincoln? Not sure how you've taken that from what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jareth said: **** love the tear down of that statue in Brizzle, a city I lived in and loved. The bigger question is why it was up for so long. Statues should not be for those that got rich off suffering - it ain't difficult. Nonetheless Priti Patel and Sajid Javid thinks it is wrong. Literally the most out of touch ruling party there has ever been. In fairness even Marvin Rees said it was a criminal offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only2McInallys Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Just now, HanoiVillan said: Not sure how you've taken that from what I said. What I am saying is he did some very good things but he also said and believed some wrong things .Some people will look at his good things and regard him as a hero whilst others will want to tear his statue down.It is not always clear what the right answer is .And to be honest I don’t know what the answer is. This has no relation to the other statues being attacked , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Only2McInallys said: The funny thing about Lincoln is he originally didn’t oppose slavery where it already existed in 1850’s ,he was opposed to it expanding. In great debates in 1858-9 he actually said a a lot of racist things which were regarded as accepted for the time. In the civil war he only decided to abolish slavery because he thought it would help the war effort He is one of those people who people might idolise but when you dig a bit deeper you discover things that are unpleasant.I often think it is wrong to judge historical people by standards which are accepted now. For that time he was advanced compared to many others. I’d be pretty amazed if that’s what went through the minds of the vandals before they acted. I totally get where you are coming from though. Ghandi is a another classic example of this. Very much idolised around the world but he was actually quite a racist person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, PaulC said: In fairness even Marvin Rees said it was a criminal offence. Most direct action is a criminal offence in some shape or other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Talking about criminality, this interview is very enlightening: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 hour ago, PaulC said: You cant ignore it no more can you take away his status as a great man in our time of need. My argument is that to label him as a racist is plain wrong because in doing so you'll take away our heritage. No. You'll simply make us aware what 'our' heritage actually IS. We shouldn't cherry pick the good stuff and ignore the bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwabatake Sanjuro Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 What a mad weekend, Stan went to town on him anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2020 33 minutes ago, bickster said: Most direct action is a criminal offence in some shape or other What on earth do you mean by direct action, direct action against what, ludicrous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwabatake Sanjuro Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Keyblade said: Not sure how I feel about the historical standards argument. In a sense I understand it, but racism and slavery were just as wrong then as they are now, and there were plenty of people who believed this at the time, not least those on the receiving end of them. Like Churchill as an example from this thread. His racism directly led to the death of millions, and I'm not going to ignore that because there was a larger proportion of people who thought like him during his time. No it did not, Adolf Hitler’s racism Lead to millions of people dying In death camps, Your comments are based on the flimsy study from a book in 2008., There is more than enough information Citing exactly the opposite, I’m absolutely flabbergasted by what you people actually wished for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Hard to keep up on this thread. Are we now comparing Churchill to Hitler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 32 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Talking about criminality, this interview is very enlightening: He used common sense but said later an investigation will be carried out to identify those "who clearly committed an act of criminal damage". So wonder if there will be any prosecutions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadridVilla Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, Kuwabatake Sanjuro said: What a mad weekend, Stan went to town on him anyway. The DFLA are planning a march on Saturday, protecting war memorials etc. You can expect trouble with these far-right nationalist hooligans clashing with protesters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, mjmooney said: No. You'll simply make us aware what 'our' heritage actually IS. We shouldn't cherry pick the good stuff and ignore the bad. You should all be ashamed of yourself for what your people did to the world. Quote Udham Singh, a man that managed to enact revenge upon General Dwyer for the attack on Jallanwalan Bagh in Amritsar which killed over 400 innocent people and injured over a thousand. ‘’I do not care about sentence of death. ... will come thousands of my countrymen to drive you dirty dogs out; to free my country.” They don’t stop protests or take revenge like they used to. Edited June 7, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, MadridVilla said: The DFLA are planning a march on Saturday, protecting war memorials etc. You can expect trouble with these far-right nationalist hooligans clashing with protesters What on earth has been happening over the last week with the far left protesting, and what an earth is wrong being proud of your heritage and proud of your nation 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, MadridVilla said: The DFLA are planning a march on Saturday, protecting war memorials etc. You can expect trouble with these far-right nationalist hooligans clashing with protesters The ‘protesters’ will be ready for it. Edited June 7, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, MadridVilla said: The DFLA are planning a march on Saturday, protecting war memorials etc. You can expect trouble with these far-right nationalist hooligans clashing with protesters All 12 of them? Haha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, PaulC said: He used common sense but said later an investigation will be carried out to identify those "who clearly committed an act of criminal damage". So wonder if there will be any prosecutions Community service for all involved. To be spent talking down other statues. (credit Newsthump) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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