Racism Part two

[Seat68]

I have been in employment for 33 years. Various jobs across different sectors. I was thinking last night, not once, not a single time in those 33 years have I had any black man or woman manage me. Not team leader, supervisor or manager. Thats pretty shocking. 

[mikeyp102]

1 hour ago, Seat68 said:

I have been in employment for 33 years. Various jobs across different sectors. I was thinking last night, not once, not a single time in those 33 years have I had any black man or woman manage me. Not team leader, supervisor or manager. Thats pretty shocking. 

I’ve been in my industry 15 years. I can honestly throughout that period, I’ve probably directly worked with no more than 5 black people and probably only 25 Asian as opposed to 100s of white people. 

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, Seat68 said:

I have been in employment for 33 years. Various jobs across different sectors. I was thinking last night, not once, not a single time in those 33 years have I had any black man or woman manage me. Not team leader, supervisor or manager. Thats pretty shocking. 

When I worked as an engineer for Transport for London my manager was a black woman. She was a great boss as well

I think that’s the only one that comes to mind. 

[Seat68]

Part of me thinks well it might be the location but I worked in West Brom and Birmingham for over 10 years. 

[Stevo985]

12 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Interested to hear some views on the below.

Studies suggest that for a number of reason ethnic group such as Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Black African suffer from income poverty in this country a lot more than Indians and White. I believe Black Caribbeans are at the lower end too. 

Why do you think this is?

Surely all groups would have suffered from the same racial barriers?

I was thinking about this and maybe it’s down to being because those from India and the Caribbean came to the UK when there was a massive labour shortage so were able to earn a good living and pass this on to next generations? 

Whilst other ethnic groups may have come to the country later whilst it was falling on more difficult times. 

I’m only hypothesising, but I’d be interested to see if it’s just down to timing. As in the earlier we saw an influx of those backgrounds, the higher their average income is now. The longer they’re here the better they’ve managed to overcome those barriers. 

[Chindie]

A friend works as a doctor. They are one of the highest achievers I know. They happen to be black. They posted a blog recently about racism within the NHS. It's kinda infuriating - it is only recently that racial abuse was included as a reason for doctors to refuse to treat someone. Along side that lots of anecdotes about not wanting to be seen by a black doctor.

Sickens me.

[HanoiVillan]

5 hours ago, Seat68 said:

I have been in employment for 33 years. Various jobs across different sectors. I was thinking last night, not once, not a single time in those 33 years have I had any black man or woman manage me. Not team leader, supervisor or manager. Thats pretty shocking. 

As of two months ago, I'm now managed by a black woman, but this is the first time in my life I've had a black manager (I've had lots of Asian managers, but that was while living in Asia). So far she's been very good (and to be boring, I quite like the way she runs meetings so I've been trying to take notes on that).

[mikeyp102]

2 hours ago, Chindie said:

A friend works as a doctor. They are one of the highest achievers I know. They happen to be black. They posted a blog recently about racism within the NHS. It's kinda infuriating - it is only recently that racial abuse was included as a reason for doctors to refuse to treat someone. Along side that lots of anecdotes about not wanting to be seen by a black doctor.

Sickens me.

That’s a really pathetic thing, like the colour of the Doctor is going to affect how people are treated. If the patient refuses treatment on that basis, they should be banned from receiving it from anyone within NHS, soon change their mind then. I know that you are entitled to choose who performs surgery etc, but if it was me I’d want the best person for the job, irrelevant of skin colour, race or religion. 

[Xela]

9 hours ago, Seat68 said:

Part of me thinks well it might be the location but I worked in West Brom and Birmingham for over 10 years. 

Could be industry as well. I work in finance and its very diverse. 

In my team I am one of only 4 white British out of 15 who do my job. I actually didn't realise until I mentally counted a few minutes ago! My employer has always been very good on employing the best person for the role regardless of race or religion. 

[Xela]

19 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Interested to hear some views on the below.

Studies suggest that for a number of reason ethnic group such as Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Black African suffer from income poverty in this country a lot more than Indians and White. I believe Black Caribbeans are at the lower end too. 

Why do you think this is?

Surely all groups would have suffered from the same racial barriers?

I was thinking about this and maybe it’s down to being because those from India and the Caribbean came to the UK when there was a massive labour shortage so were able to earn a good living and pass this on to next generations? 

Whilst other ethnic groups may have come to the country later whilst it was falling on more difficult times. 

Chinese and Indians earn more on median hourly pay than White British in the UK according to the Office of National Statistics. I believe East Asians are the highest paid group in the USA as well from a report I remember seeing. 

Have they not suffered barriers like the Pakistani or Bangladeshi population have? Or is it down to other factors? Education maybe? 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48919813

[Seat68]

17 minutes ago, Xela said:

Could be industry as well. I work in finance and its very diverse. 

In my team I am one of only 4 white British out of 15 who do my job. I actually didn't realise until I mentally counted a few minutes ago! My employer has always been very good on employing the best person for the role regardless of race or religion. 

No doubt and colleagues, equals, black british, asian, african, indian, poles. The whole lot. I have had asian managers but not one that was black. 

[KHV]

13 hours ago, Seat68 said:

I have been in employment for 33 years. Various jobs across different sectors. I was thinking last night, not once, not a single time in those 33 years have I had any black man or woman manage me. Not team leader, supervisor or manager. Thats pretty shocking. 

That is quite shocking

I have been managed by two Afro Caribbean women, 2 Muslim women
My current boss is gay, so I suppose I have had quite a diverse mix of people in the this current job over the last 15 years

 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, Xela said:

Chinese and Indians earn more on median hourly pay than White British in the UK according to the Office of National Statistics. I believe East Asians are the highest paid group in the USA as well from a report I remember seeing. 

Have they not suffered barriers like the Pakistani or Bangladeshi population have? Or is it down to other factors? Education maybe? 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48919813

Education from where?

What advantage have Indians and Chinese got over the rest? I do think timing can be a factor but first generation Pakistanis came to the country at the same time as Indians. Chinese came afterwards as far as I’m aware.

Im not saying there are not racial barriers, of course there are. But if two ethnic minorities are able to thrive against the barriers to put themselves in an even better position than white British. what is holding back the others?

[Vive_La_Villa]

13 hours ago, Seat68 said:

I have been in employment for 33 years. Various jobs across different sectors. I was thinking last night, not once, not a single time in those 33 years have I had any black man or woman manage me. Not team leader, supervisor or manager. Thats pretty shocking. 

Any Asian’s ever manage you? 

[ml1dch]

(Anecdote added for the punchline rather than any sociological interest)

Reckon in the twelve years I've been with my company (current staff of 500+) I reckon there have been no more than a couple of dozen black people working there in that time. None of whom has been managerial as far as I can remember. 

Oddly enough, from that strangely small sample the only person I had occasional dealings with was Tyrone Mings. 

He was pretty decent in work football as I recall.

[Keyblade]

14 hours ago, Seat68 said:

I have been in employment for 33 years. Various jobs across different sectors. I was thinking last night, not once, not a single time in those 33 years have I had any black man or woman manage me. Not team leader, supervisor or manager. Thats pretty shocking. 

They've done studies on just regular non-management jobs and when it comes to applying for jobs, people with identifiable "black" names are 50% less likely to land an interview/job than their white counterparts with identical credentials. I can only imagine how this translates for managerial roles.

[Seat68]

12 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Any Asian’s ever manage you? 

Yeah loads. Men and women. British asian and Indian. 

[Seat68]

I have to stress this as it may have got lost. I find it shocking that I have had no black managers. I had no say in the race of my managers and I would have welcomed any manager, regardless of the skin colour, if they were good enough. 

[villa4europe]

I worked in construction for 15 years, a few black guys dotted about, including ivor Linton! 1982 European Cup winner was an electrician on one of my sites, for some reason specialist concrete gangs like slab pourers are largely Indian and nobody seems to know why

other than that it's sparse, the decent / management positions and then various subcontractor companies you employ I don't think I've ever met someone in charge who wasn't white, on the clients side of it I've had 1 architect who was Indian, 1cost consultant who was Pakistani and 1 who was African (who actually left because he had some link to like a village chief or something and inherited a chunk of land back home) 

So I'd say 3 client side professionals in 15 years, none on the construction side and never as my boss

I've worked for 2 big regional West Midlands contractors based in Stourport and Malvern and from memory they've employed 1 Asian guy in that time 

[Xela]

26 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Education from where?

What advantage have Indians and Chinese got over the rest? I do think timing can be a factor but first generation Pakistanis came to the country at the same time as Indians. Chinese came afterwards as far as I’m aware.

Im not saying there are not racial barriers, of course there are. But if two ethnic minorities are able to thrive against the barriers to put themselves in an even better position than white British. what is holding back the others?

I may be way out but I get the feeling education and careers are generally more important to Chinese and Indian families than Pakistani and Bangladeshi families (that's a broad comment and there will obviously be examples where that isn't true). Or perhaps the children of Indian and Chinese people are encouraged more to study by their family? I work with a lot of Asians but 95% are of Indian heritage as opposed to Pakistani or Bangladeshi. I find it curious as to why that is? 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Xela