bickster Posted June 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: What on earth has been happening over the last week with the far left protesting, and what an earth is wrong being proud of your heritage and proud of your nation Because our heritage of war mongering and imperialism is rather shameful 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I’m sorry that Priti Patel didn’t like the statue going in the dock. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Community service for all involved. To be spent talking down other statues. (credit Newsthump) That sounds a very liberal way of doing it: "Excuse me, sir, you've been up there far too long and people really don't want to see you any more. Do you mind, awfully, coming down. Yes, yes, that's a good chap." Edit: Gender assumptions yada yada. Edited June 7, 2020 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brumstopdogs Posted June 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 7, 2020 2 hours ago, bickster said: Churchill was a racist, it really shouldn't be up for debate 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Hard to keep up on this thread. Are we now comparing Churchill to Hitler? Nope. We were discussing Churchill whilst being the hero of WWII also being quite an evil racist. We never got around to his views on Arabs and Islam though, they are quite delightful too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, bickster said: Because our heritage of war mongering and imperialism is rather shameful you are completely missing the point if you do not mind me saying so. All of the major powers in and around the time of imperialism were fighting for the same thing for themselves, Napoleon wanted it, the Spanish wanted it list goes on and on and on. I find no shame in what happened because it was dog eat dog in those times and you are trying to compare it to a modern society which is totally irrelevant. Every country that could bear arms wanted to control the ever expanding world, this is fact and should be taken into consideration 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2020 44 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: What on earth do you mean by direct action, direct action against what, ludicrous What's ludicrous, is that you're asking me a question that you already know he answer to, just so you can put ludicrous at the end of the sentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, bickster said: Nope. We were discussing Churchill whilst being the hero of WWII also being quite an evil racist. We never got around to his views on Arabs and Islam though, they are quite delightful too Fair enough. You reckon it justifies vandalising his statue? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: you are completely missing the point if you do not mind me saying so. All of the major powers in and around the time of imperialism were fighting for the same thing for themselves, Napoleon wanted it, the Spanish wanted it list goes on and on and on. I find no shame in what happened because it was dog eat dog in those times and you are trying to compare it to a modern society which is totally irrelevant. Every country that could bear arms wanted to control the ever expanding world, this is fact and should be taken into consideration Well sure. But you don't actually have to celebrate that, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted June 7, 2020 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted June 7, 2020 Just now, Vive_La_Villa said: Fair enough. You reckon it justifies vandalising his statue? I think it's about time we viewed Churchill for what he actually was not the idealised image we're currently being given 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, bickster said: Because our heritage of war mongering and imperialism is rather shameful I’m glad you accept that. I’ll await an apology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: you are completely missing the point if you do not mind me saying so. All of the major powers in and around the time of imperialism were fighting for the same thing for themselves, Napoleon wanted it, the Spanish wanted it list goes on and on and on. I find no shame in what happened because it was dog eat dog in those times and you are trying to compare it to a modern society which is totally irrelevant. Every country that could bear arms wanted to control the ever expanding world, this is fact and should be taken into consideration Well yes, Spain and all the other colonial powers have shameful and bloody histories. All of this can be true. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, bickster said: Nope. We were discussing Churchill whilst being the hero of WWII also being quite an evil racist. We never got around to his views on Arabs and Islam though, they are quite delightful too Hitler was an evil racist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Just now, bickster said: I think it's about time we viewed Churchill for what he actually was not the idealised image we're currently being given I agree with that. Same could be said of icons such as Mandela and Ghandi. Vandalising statues is not the way though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bickster said: I think it's about time we viewed Churchill for what he actually was not the idealised image we're currently being given The man who led us to victory against the most evil fascist racist threat to our way of life that has ever existed, try and rewrite the truth as much as much as you wish , Thankfully you can have an opinion which you would’ve not had if not for him Edited June 7, 2020 by Follyfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Follyfoot said: Hitler was an evil racist Thanks for the heads up. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I'd certainly hope Belgium for example doesn't idealize and have statues/streets after King Leopold II (fully expect to be proven wrong on this ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Hitler was an evil racist Simple declarative sentences on the one hand . . . 18 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: you are completely missing the point if you do not mind me saying so. All of the major powers in and around the time of imperialism were fighting for the same thing for themselves, Napoleon wanted it, the Spanish wanted it list goes on and on and on. I find no shame in what happened because it was dog eat dog in those times and you are trying to compare it to a modern society which is totally irrelevant. Every country that could bear arms wanted to control the ever expanding world, this is fact and should be taken into consideration . . . moral relativist prevarication on the other. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: The man who would like us to victory against the most evil fascist racist threat to our way of life that has ever existed Quite true, can people who are calling him an evil racist actually picture what life would have been like here under Nazi rule. Its ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I'd certainly hope Belgium for example doesn't idealize and have statues/streets after King Leopold II (fully expect to be proven wrong on this ). They have statues, I believe. I'm pretty sure I saw a picture of people climbing on one in Belgium today on twitter. Edited June 7, 2020 by snowychap No idea where Beligium is! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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