Tyrone Mings

[a m ole]

8 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

That sounds like u believe u are an expert in this field. I certainly am not, I am a football fan that spends too much time reading about it. I was shocked we signed Coutinho, I would not have thought that possible which shows the gap in knowledge between me and Lange et al. Before it became a reality did u fully expect us to have the ability to sign Coutinho?

Hahaha, ok.

Do me a favour then if you think I need knocking down a peg, let’s have an actual discussion. Let’s start here, ignore attainabilty, name me any centre backs better than Tyrone Mings, who you think would evidently improve us a club by replacing him. You don’t need scouting for that, as these players will be playing at the high end of their respective elite leagues with experience.

On Coutinho, he was very clearly on the transfer market as Barca have awful money issues.

Edited January 24, 2022 by a m ole

[sparrow1988]

35 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

If it was so easy to find the right players why do clubs spend so much money on a scouting network? Are you suggesting that VT would have better insights to Lange et al?

I have to say, the mental gymnastics in which you partake at times astounds me. 

[a m ole]

4 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

I have to say, the mental gymnastics in which you partake at times astounds me. 

I’m trying to understand, are Lange et al clueless because they can’t replace Mings or do they know what they’re doing because they captured Coutinho and they’re the experts?

[sparrow1988]

4 minutes ago, a m ole said:

I’m trying to understand, are Lange et al clueless because they can’t replace Mings or do they know what they’re doing because they captured Coutinho and they’re the experts?

It was the response to “it’s not that easy” with “if it was so easy, then why…” that I’m struggling with. 

[blandy]

Please stay on topic.

If you want to discuss players playing for other teams, go the the "other football" part of the forum and join or start threads in there. Thanks.

[allani]

3 hours ago, Woody1000 said:

I’m not even saying anything about Martinez.

I’ll leave it here, this forum stuff just isn’t for me anymore as I just don’t want the confrontation and I feel like I just end up having words put in my mouth.

This has all stemmed from me stating on Saturday that I think Mings needs moving on in the summer, not a ‘get out of my club’ like a lot of fans these days, a thank you for your tremendous service to our club. I think Tyrone is an outstanding person, but he’s just not a good enough player on the ball for what I would like - but that is what it is when it all comes down to it, it’s just my opinion, it’s not Steven Gerrard’s opinion.

I think the thing is that Mings thinks that he is good on the ball.  I think a stronger / more vocal partner alongside him (who Mings sees as an equal) would remind him sometimes to keep it simple.  Play the ball to JJ, Luiz, etc and let them try and build something rather than trying the longer ball down the channel for Watkins that really isn't working this season.  I do think the Digne will help in that regard - he'll make more space down the flank and that will leave a hole for JJ or Luiz to drop into for the easier ball.  Mings been much better this season but when we are under pressure like against Everton he has sometimes reverted too much to that long ball over the top.  Mind you that is better than dwelling on the ball and conceding possession in our own half / in our own box.  I think his leadership / organisation has really stepped up a level since Gerrard took over.

[Peter Griffin]

1 hour ago, tomav84 said:

there are plenty that indicate that upgrading mings would be a very straightforward ask

I haven't seen anyone suggest this. I think upgrading any position on the field is a difficult task and some will be more difficult to others

[ciggiesnbeer]

Another great game against Everton. I love to see him bomb forward.  Such a  great defender. Glad he was there to help clean up a couple of Digne's mistakes (which are understandable its a new team, system and he was returning to his old club.)

 

[villalad21]

No agenda from me.

I just don't particularly rate him. There is nothing more to it than that.

[juanpabloangel18]

35 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Another great game against Everton. I love to see him bomb forward.  Such a  great defender. Glad he was there to help clean up a couple of Digne's mistakes (which are understandable its a new team, system and he was returning to his old club.)

Sarcasm or were we watching different games!

[ciggiesnbeer]

1 minute ago, juanpabloangel18 said:

Sarcasm or were we watching different games!

Not sarcasm at all. Obviously neutral sites ratings are less important than our own eyes and each others opinions but I happen to agree with sofa score.


https://www.sofascore.com/everton-aston-villa/PY

 

[Rolta]

26 minutes ago, juanpabloangel18 said:

Sarcasm or were we watching different games!

Apart from kicking the ball out badly once (which anyone can do), what did he do wrong? He did everything that was asked of him as a quality prem CB.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, allani said:

I think the thing is that Mings thinks that he is good on the ball.  I think a stronger / more vocal partner alongside him (who Mings sees as an equal) would remind him sometimes to keep it simple.  Play the ball to JJ, Luiz, etc and let them try and build something rather than trying the longer ball down the channel for Watkins that really isn't working this season.  I do think the Digne will help in that regard - he'll make more space down the flank and that will leave a hole for JJ or Luiz to drop into for the easier ball.  Mings been much better this season but when we are under pressure like against Everton he has sometimes reverted too much to that long ball over the top.  Mind you that is better than dwelling on the ball and conceding possession in our own half / in our own box.  I think his leadership / organisation has really stepped up a level since Gerrard took over.

he's a bit like Marmite.

I have mixed views on him, at times he is "Conan The Destroyer" and then others when he has a wobble he is like "The Fonz" too busy trying to look cool.

He should be scoring goals like Laursen/Evans with his presence....a big old unit, that shy's away at times, and other times goes in for every ball.

I think he has concentration issues......but I think we look worse as a team, when he is out of the line -up.....I do like his presence.

I could argue for him....and I could argue against him......Mid table centre back, I think.

Edited January 24, 2022 by TRO

[allani]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

he's a bit like Marmite.

I have mixed views on him, at times he is "Conan The Destroyer" and then others when he has a wobble he is like "The Fonz" too busy trying to look cool.

He should be scoring goals like Laursen, with his presence....a big old unit, that shy's away at times, and other times goes in for every ball.

I think he has concentration issues......but I think we look worse as a team, when he is out of the line -up.....I do like his presence.

I could argue for him....and I could argue against him......Mid table centre back, I think.

I agree with pretty much all of that except your final point.  I think he is better than a mid-table centre back.  You might be right that if he is the "main" partner then maybe the ceiling is limited - although I'd say that he is easily good enough for the likes of us, Everton, West Ham, Leicester, Wolves (i.e. the teams that are probably all looking to compete with the "Super 6").  So 7th / 8th place (with an outside chance of finishing higher).  However, with the right man alongside him I think he is good enough to play in one of the top teams.  I mean I wouldn't take either of Man Utd, Arsenal or Spurs central pair over Mings, I don't think Matip is a big upgrade at Liverpool.  So basically the only teams that he'd be a downgrade at would be Chelsea and Man City.  The thing is if he played alongside van Dijk for example he'd lose some of those issues you highlight because he'd be given proper direction and instruction and have his head bitten off if he let his man escape.  I think because he is so much more vocal and the leader of our defence - sometimes he doesn't get that and that is normally when he has a brain fart.  I can't remember him ever switching off in an England shirt for example.  I think he is a really good captain but bizarrely I think he needs a senior figure playing alongside him to get the best out of him.  So I think he'd be a better player at one of the top 6 teams than a mid-table team because he'd be more likely to be the "junior" partner.

I think that is why we'd be better signing a starting CB rather than a really good back-up to Konsa / Mings.  Because actually I think both Konsa and Mings would be better players with a better partner.  Of course keeping Konsa / Mings happy on the bench is another matter - but as Gerrard said the other day EVERY player needs to accept that we might be buying someone better for their position and it is up to them to fight for the shirt back.

[tom_avfc]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

No agenda from me.

I just don't particularly rate him. There is nothing more to it than that.

That’s a relief. Thought I was going mad thinking Mings was a very good Premier League defender. Glad to have it confirmed that I was right all along! 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, juanpabloangel18 said:

Sarcasm or were we watching different games!

We ALL watch the same game........but, differently.

Its our interpretation of the same game, that varies.

and in a convoluted way, we are often paradoxically right.

Edited January 24, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, allani said:

I agree with pretty much all of that except your final point.  I think he is better than a mid-table centre back.  You might be right that if he is the "main" partner then maybe the ceiling is limited - although I'd say that he is easily good enough for the likes of us, Everton, West Ham, Leicester, Wolves (i.e. the teams that are probably all looking to compete with the "Super 6").  So 7th / 8th place (with an outside chance of finishing higher).  However, with the right man alongside him I think he is good enough to play in one of the top teams.  I mean I wouldn't take either of Man Utd, Arsenal or Spurs central pair over Mings, I don't think Matip is a big upgrade at Liverpool.  So basically the only teams that he'd be a downgrade at would be Chelsea and Man City.  The thing is if he played alongside van Dijk for example he'd lose some of those issues you highlight because he'd be given proper direction and instruction and have his head bitten off if he let his man escape.  I think because he is so much more vocal and the leader of our defence - sometimes he doesn't get that and that is normally when he has a brain fart.  I can't remember him ever switching off in an England shirt for example.  I think he is a really good captain but bizarrely I think he needs a senior figure playing alongside him to get the best out of him.  So I think he'd be a better player at one of the top 6 teams than a mid-table team because he'd be more likely to be the "junior" partner.

I think that is why we'd be better signing a starting CB rather than a really good back-up to Konsa / Mings.  Because actually I think both Konsa and Mings would be better players with a better partner.  Of course keeping Konsa / Mings happy on the bench is another matter - but as Gerrard said the other day EVERY player needs to accept that we might be buying someone better for their position and it is up to them to fight for the shirt back.

Its the only way to raise the bar.

[onmeedson]

Maybe nostalgia tends to sway us with the likes of Chris Nicholl, Ken McNaught, Paul McGrath, Olof Melberg, Martin Laurson and Allan Evans men of steel on a conveyor belt in those days. Today the quality of centre backs is lower in the whole Country and we just yearn for that part of the game to go back to the levels we once witnessed.

[jacketspuds]

Looking at how Van Dijk went steaming in to score that header for Liverpool yesterday makes me think that Mings should be more of a threat from set pieces.

Now that we have Digne and Coutinho, both of whom can take great corners and free kicks, hopefully we can actually pick him out a bit more as well as I think he could be very effective.

[ozvillafan]

21 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

Looking at how Van Dijk went steaming in to score that header for Liverpool yesterday makes me think that Mings should be more of a threat from set pieces.

Now that we have Digne and Coutinho, both of whom can take great corners and free kicks, hopefully we can actually pick him out a bit more as well as I think he could be very effective.

Hmmm....

Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, a lot of our early season play from corners was looking for Ming's head. And he got to a lot of them. And got assists from them.

Teams have tweaked to this - which would explain why little Buendia was allowed to sneak in for a goal from Digne's corner versus Everton. Too many defenders trying to tie up Mings, perhaps?