villa89 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I couldn't disagree more. Zonal marking being shit is the biggest myth in football. The stats show it's a much better way to defend than going man for man. The players just need to do their job which they obviously didn't last night. Edited January 29, 2021 by villa89 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Mings handled their long balls comfortably for the most part last night. He did nothing wrong tussling for the ball with Wood before the corner. He did his defensive job. The basics were done wrong by various defenders last night, even Emi before his big save had some communication issues with Konsa. It happens. Luiz defensively didn’t do enough to protect the defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 28, 2021 Just now, DCJonah said: I agree to some extent. However had Konza conceded that corner, there is no way people would have blamed him or criticised him for the goal. Maybe, but that's because he is in great form and Mings isn't. It happens with every position in every team we've ever had. You give extra slack for someone that is playing really well. When mistakes and poor performances are a rarity you are more generous to that player. If Martinez drops a cross and Southampton score from it everyone will brush it under the carpet because he's been excellent for us. If Nyland was playing and he did it everyone would go **** mental. That's life. Mings isn't playing particularly well at the moment so some people are being extra critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, villa89 said: The stats show it's a much better way to defend than going man for man. The players just need to do there job which they obviously didn't last night. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 28 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I couldn't disagree more. Zonal marking being shit is the biggest myth in football. Zonal can work for teams. Sadly we're not one of them. Too many of our players doesn't smell the danger and i think we are much better off by man marking. Easier to take seeing Mee score with Mings battling with him than seeing a hopeless Luiz marking him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted January 28, 2021 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Zonal can work for teams. Sadly we're not one of them. Too many of our players doesn't smell the danger and i think we are much better off by man marking. Easier to take seeing Mee score with Mings battling with him than seeing a hopeless Luiz marking him. Yeah I disgaree. it works every week. We've got one of the best defences in the league and the second most clean sheets this season. And we use zonal marking. Any decent team uses Zonal Marking. Nobody notices zonal marking when it works 99% of the time but as soon as you concede a goal everyone screams "Oh My GoD zOnAl MaRkInG iS sHiT!" Goals are conceded multiple times every week in leagues all over the world from man marking, but nobody ever mentions it. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_jW Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Problem for me with Tyrone is, he's 6'5" and can only jump 2" off the ground. Size doesn't matter if you can't jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dave_jW said: Problem for me with Tyrone is, he's 6'5" and can only jump 2" off the ground. Size doesn't matter if you can't jump. That's part of the problem I think, you cant put a guy who cant jump against somebody who can when your defending. In basketball your players who cant jump stay outside the D and defend against bad jumping opposition defenders and stop the three points scoring players, it's a similar thing in football you should have your crap jumpers defending opposition weak jumpers. Most of the time the opposition is having a run up to our goal while defending players have to alot of the time jump on the spot which is alot tougher to jump. Somebody for the header goal should of been jumping with there player who can actually jump high all while having enough strength to put them off. I also think we as of late are doing abit to much backing off from the ball, nobody seems to be taking on yard runners. We seem to just let them have the run all the way from there own box to ours and hope they make a mistake on a pass along the way. There are some niggling annoyances coming back from last season it seems, thing weve done so well to keep out of our games all season so far. Are we dropping off abit now, we may well be doing just that because we've been going really strong and now there are weaknesses showing. I think a large part is down to players being tired, not enough quality from the bench and other reasons such as players picking up the covid, players not concentrating enough when it's most needed and of course not burying most our chances. There are just alot of factors as to why games arnt going our way as much lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 33 minutes ago, Dave_jW said: Problem for me with Tyrone is, he's 6'5" and can only jump 2" off the ground. Size doesn't matter if you can't jump. Did you measure this? Or is it just another wild, baseless criticism of him 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Maybe, but that's because he is in great form and Mings isn't. It happens with every position in every team we've ever had. You give extra slack for someone that is playing really well. When mistakes and poor performances are a rarity you are more generous to that player. If Martinez drops a cross and Southampton score from it everyone will brush it under the carpet because he's been excellent for us. If Nyland was playing and he did it everyone would go **** mental. That's life. Mings isn't playing particularly well at the moment so some people are being extra critical. i disagree that mings isn't playing well. he's doing just fine IMO. but because of this perception that he's not playing well everything he does just get's overanalysed. i don't get how a player can be criticised for conceding a corner anyway, especially this one where it was just a tussle (and actually a foul on mings) and the ball just came off him. corners are easier to defend than they are to score from, and that's a statistical fact. conceding corners really is no big deal but people are going on like he's chopped someone down in the box and conceded a stupid pen. has no one considered that konsa and mings have been assigned 2 set roles. mings is better passer of the ball hence emi/konsa are instructed to play it to him so he can play out from the back? the added risk is that mings might be open to losing it as he's on the ball more than konsa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, villalad21 said: Zonal can work for teams. Sadly we're not one of them. Too many of our players doesn't smell the danger and i think we are much better off by man marking. Easier to take seeing Mee score with Mings battling with him than seeing a hopeless Luiz marking him. we have conceded 5 goals from set pieces this season, not including pens. 2 of those were direct free kicks vs Southampton, which leaves just 3 conceded from corners (unless someone can remind me of any other free kick goals we've conceded from) i'd say zonal marking has been working pretty well so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I'm pretty sure we had the next best record for away goals conceded before the Burnley game. Clearly, we are doing something right. One bad, freakish result doesn't spoil the basket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_jW Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 45 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said: Did you measure this? Or is it just another wild, baseless criticism of him No real criticism, just an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, villalad21 said: Zonal can work for teams. Sadly we're not one of them. Too many of our players doesn't smell the danger and i think we are much better off by man marking. Easier to take seeing Mee score with Mings battling with him than seeing a hopeless Luiz marking him. Zonal is the best for our team, because aside from Mings and Konsa we have no real height. If Mings and Konsa take say Mee and Wood, who then takes Tarkowski, Pieters, Rodriguez? We haven't got the players with the height or ability to man mark in terms of actually being able to win the ball. All it takes is Mee/Wood to make runs taking Mings/Konsa away from the danger zone, and its open season for the others. Mings/Konsa cover the high danger zones, and the others are there to just disrupt/slow down/block runs - this allows Mings/Konsa a higher chance of getting to the ball first, which ever opposition players decides to attack it. The problem last night was that Luiz basically stepped aside and said to Mee 'have a free run at it' As @Stevo985 says, zonal works just fine, and we would be worse with man to man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post cb_82 Posted January 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 Definitely an agenda with Mings IMO.... Cash fails to stop 2 crosses - Barely a new post Mings gives away a corner that Barkley/Luiz fail to defend - Mings post explodes as does twitter 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 28, 2021 40 minutes ago, tomav84 said: i disagree that mings isn't playing well. he's doing just fine IMO. but because of this perception that he's not playing well everything he does just get's overanalysed. i don't get how a player can be criticised for conceding a corner anyway, especially this one where it was just a tussle (and actually a foul on mings) and the ball just came off him. corners are easier to defend than they are to score from, and that's a statistical fact. conceding corners really is no big deal but people are going on like he's chopped someone down in the box and conceded a stupid pen. has no one considered that konsa and mings have been assigned 2 set roles. mings is better passer of the ball hence emi/konsa are instructed to play it to him so he can play out from the back? the added risk is that mings might be open to losing it as he's on the ball more than konsa I'm not agreeing with the criticisms of conceding the corner. But Mings isn't playing particularly well at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 See I do have a criticism but I'll explain why so that people don't get this confused with hatred or scapegoating nonsense. My issue is game discipline. Now I don't blame him for defeat, goals conceeded or any of that. What I do have issue with is, his over excuburance or rashness. He never learns. Twice that I can remember last night he got turned in the second half on the left and right hand sides in no man's land. Luckily we had cover but both were very similar to the sending off against palace. He gets too carried away at times out of position and reacts rather than just stay tight cover and reset when back up arrives. He's had a great season in general but he needs to cut these moments of needlessness out of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 The issue with Mings is that whilst every other player in the XI/first 15 has either developed or been a significant upgrade he is probably the only one that is at the same level as last year. Another way of looking at it is who else in the league would make us an offer to buy Mings as a starting CB? West Ham? Leeds? Palace? Newcastle and probably the rest of the relegation threatened teams. He played a key role in getting us up but he’s more than likely going to be fighting for his place in the summer v a new arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Dave_jW said: Problem for me with Tyrone is, he's 6'5" and can only jump 2" off the ground. Size doesn't matter if you can't jump. I can Fosbury Flop with the best of them but the missus says size is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Maybe, but that's because he is in great form and Mings isn't. It happens with every position in every team we've ever had. You give extra slack for someone that is playing really well. When mistakes and poor performances are a rarity you are more generous to that player. If Martinez drops a cross and Southampton score from it everyone will brush it under the carpet because he's been excellent for us. If Nyland was playing and he did it everyone would go **** mental. That's life. Mings isn't playing particularly well at the moment so some people are being extra critical. Well I disagree with Mings being the Nyland in that analogy. I don't think he is playing badly. I think he's been decent. The reaction as soon as the man city goal went in shows there are people desperate to have a go at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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