Tyrone Mings

[lexicon]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

He doesn't have to be absolutely world class to escape criticism.

THat might annoy you, but it annoys me that people can't criticise certain players' performances without being accused of bias or scapegoating.

Mings has not been superb against City, Newcastle or Burnley in my opinion. He's been ok but below his usual standards. That's all. I don't think that's such a horrendous thing to say

Mings makes a mistake - takes all sorts of shit.

Konsa makes a mistake - nobody mentions it. 

It's the double standards that pisses me off. 

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Mings makes a mistake - takes all sorts of shit.

Konsa makes a mistake - nobody mentions it. 

It's the double standards that pisses me off. 

But as I've said, this is nothing new. Player in poor form gets more flak than player in great form.

Fans make allowances for players who are playing really well. The analogy I gave before, if Martinez drops a cross against southampton and INgs nips in and scores would everyone go mental at Martinez? No because he's been really good and he is allowed a mistake. If Traore gave away a goal then people wouldn't be so forgiving.

Mings hasn't been playing that well lately so people give him less slack.

 

It doesn't make him a scapegoat if he's actually not playing that well.

[mikeyjavfc]

2 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Mings makes a mistake - takes all sorts of shit.

Konsa makes a mistake - nobody mentions it. 

It's the double standards that pisses me off. 

Totally. There seems to be an element of Mings  being an outspoken person, both on the pitch and on social media etc., therefore it’s fair game to call him out on every mistake, real or imaginary. 

Whereas Konsa is seemingly a more quiet person so he doesn’t attract criticism like a lightning rod. Although the same could be said of AEG and he received awful abuse so I don’t know. 

[villalad21]

8 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Mings makes a mistake - takes all sorts of shit.

Konsa makes a mistake - nobody mentions it. 

It's the double standards that pisses me off. 

Because Konsa barely makes mistakes compared to Mings.

If Konsa made mistakes as frequently as Mings he would get criticism too.

Edited January 29, 2021 by villalad21

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

But as I've said, this is nothing new. Player in poor form gets more flak than player in great form.

Fans make allowances for players who are playing really well. The analogy I gave before, if Martinez drops a cross against southampton and INgs nips in and scores would everyone go mental at Martinez? No because he's been really good and he is allowed a mistake. If Traore gave away a goal then people wouldn't be so forgiving.

Mings hasn't been playing that well lately so people give him less slack.

 

It doesn't make him a scapegoat if he's actually not playing that well.

I don't think Mings has necessarily been that much worse, though - I don't think they're poles apart in terms of form. They've both played an important part in the number of clean sheets we've managed this season and defensively their numbers are pretty similar. 

As for Martinez making a mistake - come on now, it's VT, of course some people would go mental at him 

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, lexicon said:

I don't think Mings has necessarily been that much worse, though - I don't think they're poles apart in terms of form. They've both played an important part in the number of clean sheets we've managed this season and defensively their numbers are pretty similar. 

As for Martinez making a mistake - come on now, it's VT, of course some people would go mental at him 

I think Konsa has been comfortably our best Centreback this season. I think he's been excellent in most games.

Mings has been very good too! I just think his form has dipped the last few weeks.

[lexicon]

OK, so a side by side of the two - from a stats perspective:

Dispossessed - Both 0.2
Unsuccessful touches - Mings 0.5 - Konsa 0.3
Clearances - Mings 4.5 - Konsa 4.3
Blocks - Both 0.9
Dribbled past - Mings 0.2 - Konsa 0.1
Tackles  - Mings 0.5 - Konsa 0.7
Interceptions - Mings 1 - Konsa 0.7
Aerial Duels - Mings 2.9 - Konsa 2.8
Fouls - Mings 0.5 - Konsa 0.4
Passing success - Mings 77% - Konsa 84%
Average pass no. - Mings 47 - Konsa 33
Average long balls - Mings 3.8 - Konsa 2.1
Key Passes - Mings 0.3 - Konsa 0 
Goals - Both 2
Assists - Mings 1 - Konsa 0


Very, very similar stats in a lot of categories but it also shows the different roles that they play, which is very important for a defensive partnership. If they were both the same sort of player, it wouldn't work. Mings is going to make more mistakes because his job requires him to be 'out there' more - in terms of moving the ball, offering an option, taking on the physical challenges etc. Konsa has a more conservative role, especially in possession and that should mean that he makes fewer mistakes - and he does, but only marginally so, as we can see. 

 

 

[GingerCollins29]

31 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

He doesn't have to be absolutely world class to escape criticism.

THat might annoy you, but it annoys me that people can't criticise certain players' performances without being accused of bias or scapegoating.

Mings has not been superb against City, Newcastle or Burnley in my opinion. He's been ok but below his usual standards. That's all. I don't think that's such a horrendous thing to say

I disagree with you hugely (imo) but thats life! UTV

[villa4europe]

33 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Mings makes a mistake - takes all sorts of shit.

Konsa makes a mistake - nobody mentions it. 

It's the double standards that pisses me off. 

Its more the goal goes in "wheres mings?" thing that's pissing me off

Seen a fair few on twitter blame him for all 3 goals, madness, they're seeing that because that's what they want to see

In reality all 3 goals were really bad team defending not individual errors

[rodders0223]

6 minutes ago, lexicon said:

OK, so a side by side of the two - from a stats perspective:

Dispossessed - Both 0.2
Unsuccessful touches - Mings 0.5 - Konsa 0.3
Clearances - Mings 4.5 - Konsa 4.3
Blocks - Both 0.9
Dribbled past - Mings 0.2 - Konsa 0.1
Tackles  - Mings 0.5 - Konsa 0.7
Interceptions - Mings 1 - Konsa 0.7
Aerial Duels - Mings 2.9 - Konsa 2.8
Fouls - Mings 0.5 - Konsa 0.4
Passing success - Mings 77% - Konsa 84%
Average pass no. - Mings 47 - Konsa 33
Average long balls - Mings 3.8 - Konsa 2.1
Key Passes - Mings 0.3 - Konsa 0 
Goals - Both 2
Assists - Mings 1 - Konsa 0


Very, very similar stats in a lot of categories but it also shows the different roles that they play, which is very important for a defensive partnership. If they were both the same sort of player, it wouldn't work. Mings is going to make more mistakes because his job requires him to be 'out there' more - in terms of moving the ball, offering an option, taking on the physical challenges etc. Konsa has a more conservative role, especially in possession and that should mean that he makes fewer mistakes - and he does, but only marginally so, as we can see. 

 

 

Mistakes leading to goals/chances?

He is good at the defending stuff most of the time, when he does he job, heads everything, clears the ball when he needs to he is fine. 2 games of this though and it's like he thinks "clean sheet under my belt, time to try and play like Beckenbauer again"#

 

[Okonokos]

I really don't think there's been that much difference between Konsa and Mings this season at all. Very, very close.

Konsa is perhaps more composed  but Mings is vital to us playing out from the back, we could not do that without him. Aerially, blocking and clearances; they're both very similar. Both make mistakes but there's really not much to choose between them. There's absolutely no doubt that Mings gets criticised (on here but mostly Twitter) more than Konsa and I don't think its justified. They should both be praised equally for forming one of the best defensive partnerships in the league this season. We need both equally.

[Zatman]

12 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Mistakes leading to goals/chances?

He is good at the defending stuff most of the time, when he does he job, heads everything, clears the ball when he needs to he is fine. 2 games of this though and it's like he thinks "clean sheet under my belt, time to try and play like Beckenbauer again"#

 

According to the official Premier League site its Zero mistakes leading to goals for both Mings and Konsa 

Our highest player to have an error leading to a chance is Jack actually with 2

Edited January 29, 2021 by Zatman

[lexicon]

11 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Mistakes leading to goals/chances?

He is good at the defending stuff most of the time, when he does he job, heads everything, clears the ball when he needs to he is fine. 2 games of this though and it's like he thinks "clean sheet under my belt, time to try and play like Beckenbauer again"#

 

You can generally extrapolate it from those stats tbf - I can't find a number for it from a cursory google. The premier league site states that none of our players have committed an error leading to a goal, but I have no idea how they calculated that. 

[lexicon]

19 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Its more the goal goes in "wheres mings?" thing that's pissing me off

Seen a fair few on twitter blame him for all 3 goals, madness, they're seeing that because that's what they want to see

In reality all 3 goals were really bad team defending not individual errors

Quite - it's the double standards, as I said, that I just can't stand. I really like both of them as players. 

[weedman]

16 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Mistakes leading to goals/chances?

He is good at the defending stuff most of the time, when he does he job, heads everything, clears the ball when he needs to he is fine. 2 games of this though and it's like he thinks "clean sheet under my belt, time to try and play like Beckenbauer again"#

 

I do love VT sometimes, we all gush over the fantastic football we play, the quick tempo one touch passing from the back football, but as soon as one of the players has a pass intercepted it's all "why wouldn't he just clear it?!" 

Its crazy, he doesn't just hack the ball clear every time because if he did it would be terrible for our game and Smith would replace him with someone that plays exactly like Mings does now.

To play the football we play it requires taking risks at the back, Mings is our defender that does that, Konsa doesn't, so Konsa can focus on defending, obviously that will lead to him giving the ball away every now and then. We gain much more than we lose from this tactic which is why Smith will never try and change the way Mings plays, he's literally perfect for our style 

[Okonokos]

7 minutes ago, weedman said:

I do love VT sometimes, we all gush over the fantastic football we play, the quick tempo one touch passing from the back football, but as soon as one of the players has a pass intercepted it's all "why wouldn't he just clear it?!" 

Its crazy, he doesn't just hack the ball clear every time because if he did it would be terrible for our game and Smith would replace him with someone that plays exactly like Mings does now.

To play the football we play it requires taking risks at the back, Mings is our defender that does that, Konsa doesn't, so Konsa can focus on defending, obviously that will lead to him giving the ball away every now and then. We gain much more than we lose from this tactic which is why Smith will never try and change the way Mings plays, he's literally perfect for our style 

100% correct. Every player makes mistakes. Even Grealish misplaces passes sometimes. But when Mings does, it's more likely to be in a dangerous part of the pitch due to his position than say Watkins. Doesn't mean he gives it away any more than any other player does and he's more likely to than Konsa because of the differences you highlighted. There's definitely an eagerness to blame him.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Okonokos

[Ben]

It's not only about those kind of stats,

During the game Mings seem to be sloppy on the ball and ye get the feeling he is going to do something stupid. Konsa very rarely does anything sloppy. He will be clever and win a free kick in a pressurised situation but mings will try and take on the attacker and loose the ball.

Both have been excellent and if mings was to cut out those aspects of his game he would be a perfect defender

[tomav84]

40 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Its more the goal goes in "wheres mings?" thing that's pissing me off

Seen a fair few on twitter blame him for all 3 goals, madness, they're seeing that because that's what they want to see

In reality all 3 goals were really bad team defending not individual errors

exactly and this is the key difference between criticism and scapegoating. really don't know why people don't get that

[lexicon]

5 minutes ago, Ben said:

It's not only about those kind of stats,

During the game Mings seem to be sloppy on the ball and ye get the feeling he is going to do something stupid. Konsa very rarely does anything sloppy. He will be clever and win a free kick in a pressurised situation but mings will try and take on the attacker and loose the ball.

Both have been excellent and if mings was to cut out those aspects of his game he would be a perfect defender

So not actually fact-based, though?

[Ben]

Just now, lexicon said:

So not actually fact-based, though?

Take the first goal for example.

Should of cleared it and they score from the corner, that will not show up in the stats and a mistake from mings