Dean Smith

[maqroll]

He will probably view this as his worst loss as Villa boss. He won't sleep tonight. 

I really hope he uses this as a pivot point to motivate himself, the staff and the players to never let this happen again.

[VillaFaninLondon]

14 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Largely agree with your point but given way board backed him in 19/20 think thin ice is a bit OTT.

Think we need something v Arsenal otherwise we're on one of those frustrating losing streaks that suddenly appear out of nowhere in his reign in the seasons he's been here.

After that game we have likes of Southampton, Brighton, Palace so to go into December well in bottom half would be disappointing and I actually don't think he'd survive that situation given we are now an established prem club again.

This actually reminds me of where Leicester were 2-3 years ago. They were mugging around 12-13th mid season with a squad similar to ours. Proven quality (Vardy, Schmiechel, Maguire etc) and some really good young players like Chilwell and Maddison coming through.

They sacked Claude Puel and got in Rodgers and since then narrowly missed finishing 4th in two seperate seasons and won FA cup so it was a very good decision.

Dean's done well for us no doubt but seems to be this idea he's the only manager around who could ever get us back into europe or win us a trophy again. Last 10 minutes of today makes that a bit of a mockery.

I'm sure likes of Conte and Luciene Favre would have a good go at that. Those may be unrealistic managerial appointments but those will be the types Newcastle will try to tempt in next two years.

They did back him just about in 19/20 but I have it on good authority that he was very close to losing his job after that shambolic defeat at Leicester. COVID essentially saved Smith and saved us. There were very quick discussions that things on the pitch needed to improve and going down was not acceptable, thus Smith spent the entirety of lockdown identifying where we were weak and trying to fix the defence. It worked and he and the club survived, but he was very lucky, as was the club.

Things are different now. We have a much better squad than then and we are underachieving. We're already down 5 points on last season and we finished 11th. He's undone all the great work by beating United and Everton by losing to a Spurs team that we should have at least got a draw from and to a Wolves team we should have beaten. I genuinely thought we'd be sat on 14 points (or at least 13) from 8 games, a decent return. Instead we're on 10 from 8 and at this rate we're gonna end finishing somewhere sh*t like 12th-14th. 

Conte is out of our reach I think, I really don't think the barcodes will get him either no matter how much money they offer him (certainly not this season with the state of their current squad). Favre I think could be a realistic option for us, did a great job at Dortmund, but he hasn't managed in the PL before so of course it's a risk. But we'd be appointing a very well respected manager who's managed top quality players, the route I think we need to go down myself. 

I really don't know with Smith any more, he's built a really good squad here and there seems a great camaraderie, but I just don't think he's ever going to be good enough for where we want to go. We need to be bringing in that next level of player now to push on and I don't know if Smith can handle that extra pressure to bring the best out of top performers or to bench players that aren't fitting. He's already struggling with Watkins and Ings because he hasn't got the nous to drop one of them when it's clear it ain't working. 

I think there is a risk of removing Smith because of his relationship with the players but most importantly because in the past we have been so lacklustre about appointing the right manager and got it wrong so many times. But that doesn't mean we should blindly back Smith and we have to trust the owners to get the right person in. If things continue as they are with these poor performances, results and defensive set-ups I really do think there will be a clamour for him to go. 

[Spoony]

Now at this point I’m just praying Bailey is the saviour and we revert back to 4-3-3 once he’s fit. 

[MikeMcKenna]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

Define "glory" 

Because that squad is a long way off it let alone Smith 

For me ‘Glory’ at the moment is either winning something or qualifying for Europe. I agree neither is imminent but hard to see how Smith will get us either and I really like the guy.

[foreveryoung]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Is it the aim this season? Is he the person holding the team back from finishing above Arsenal, Spurs, Leicester, West Ham?

That's a good question. Personally I don't think our squad is any worst than those 4, but we don't play as good as a Leicester or West ham. I mean Tottenham only beat us with Son.

[Xela]

17 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

No, but it is always and upward line

Can be zig-zaggy as well! 

Season is still young and we're still missing key players. I'm confident we'll improve on last season, albeit marginally. 

[hippo]

3 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

honestly, i dont think anyone can say our recruitment or signed players (excluding our first year back) was sub par, i honestly think its not an excuse or angle that can be used at all.

Bailey, Buendia, Traore, Sanson, Luiz, Konsa, Martinez, Watkins, Ings etc etc, all quality signings.

The last 2 summers signings have been superb imo, if we cant get a team ticking from these players, there is something wrong.

Did we fail to plug some important gaps?, yes probably, but i dont think anyone can argue with the signings we have actually made over the last 2 seasons.

Well today luiz was knackered and we only had Nkamba to bring on his place ?

Recruitment hasn't been bad - but let's be honest the squad we had isn't troubling the top 6. We only got 11th with a once a in generation player in top form. 11th and below is realistic this season IMO.

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, foreveryoung said:

That's a good question. Personally I don't think our squad is any worst than those 4, but we don't play as good as a Leicester or West ham. I mean Tottenham only beat us with Son.

I wonder what our wage bill is compared to those 4. 

[foreveryoung]

6 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

honestly, i dont think anyone can say our recruitment or signed players (excluding our first year back) was sub par, i honestly think its not an excuse or angle that can be used at all.

Bailey, Buendia, Traore, Sanson, Luiz, Konsa, Martinez, Watkins, Ings etc etc, all quality signings.

The last 2 summers signings have been superb imo, if we cant get a team ticking from these players, there is something wrong.

Did we fail to plug some important gaps?, yes probably, but i dont think anyone can argue with the signings we have actually made over the last 2 seasons.

Is the squad we have now, any worst than West ham or Leicester. I find it very hard in reality to see it is?

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

I wonder what our wage bill is compared to those 4. 

Would prove nothing. Having a bigger wage bill does not mean better players??

[VillaChris]

@VillaFaninLondon Yeah the Leicester game thing was reported in press he'd have been out if we'd lost to Chelsea.

I actually meant more over the xmas period when we lost 3-1 at home to Southampton and then 3-0 at Watford. Many prem owners would've sacked him then with half a season still to play. We also lost 6-1 to Man. City around that time. I remember us going to Burnley, playing well and winning 2-1 and Purslow coming on to the pitch to hug DS so with that type of reaction it was probably in their heads around that time but they wanted to give him the season if they could.

Favre actually flopped a bit at Dortmund so he won't be on radar of CL clubs....but did really good jobs at 'Gladbach and Nice in last decade so shown he can improve mid table teams significantly. He was supposed to be close to joining Crystal Palace in summer so certainly isn't some unrealistic shout. Think with what we have in squad now getting one of those pressing managers from Bundesliga would really suit us, Roger Schmidt might be another good shout.

Agree with the rest. DS done well for us but don't think he's quite good it in him to take us to the heights O'Neill did (and that was seen as underachieving at the time of course).

[villa4europe]

Just now, foreveryoung said:

Is the squad we have now, any worst than West ham or Leicester. I find it very hard in reality to see it is?

I don't think we have a single player who gets in Leicesters team

Probably nostalgia more than anything else but I don't think they even swap Schmeichel for Emi

[Mark_1989]

3 minutes ago, Xela said:

 

Apologies.

I could see him signalling to the bench but thought it was the opposite.

having him on would have helped but I guess if he’s asked to come off then nothing we can do

[Phil Silvers]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

I think the subs cost us the game

But that doesn't mean that I think Smith was stupid to make them, they just didn't perform, the subs made sense on paper 

100% down to the players who blew it, Deano is accountable because he knows them inside out, just a complete **** up from head to toe to a man.

[VillaChris]

Just now, foreveryoung said:

Would prove nothing. Having a bigger wage bill does not mean better players??

It's a bit of a cop out. I'd imagine Leeds had significantly lower wage bill than us, same with Sheffield United the other season when they finished 9th.

Wolves probably got similar wage bill to us unless they're playing the Portugal lot 150k a week to live in Tettenhall Wood.

[a m ole]

One thing I do know for sure is that Dean Smith knows more about football management then anyone one here.

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, a m ole said:

One thing I do know for sure is that Dean Smith knows more about football management then anyone one here.

True enough, but does he know more than, a Rodgers or Moyes for instance. If not, is this may be our problem?

[Keyblade]

36 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said:

I personally think our best starting 11 is better than mid table but overall the squad is prob mid table. We are in the middle of restarting the club from nothingness to stability to greatness. We are somewhere in the stability zone right now but we are not totally free of nothingness just yet. Sacking Smith would be backwards thinking, I think Purslow and the owners would be thinking the same

We've sorted out the front line and the defence. We have proper depth there to play different ways and make subs to change the game. We need to do the same for the midfield in the next year or so. We lost control of the game when we made our 2 midfield subs, and that's down to the quality of our depth (in fairness to Ramsey he's very young and inexperienced, that was a bad sub by Smith). 

We're having to play Luiz despite him playing for Brazil 2 days ago because the alternative is Nakamba. In contrast, Buendia who was probably our best player after McGinn today and our record signing was riding the bench for 3 games because our front players were playing so well. Ditto for Traore. We haven't even played our second most expensive signing properly yet too. Once we get our midfield up to that level of strength, we'll be flying. For now, I think we'll be inconsistent. 

[foreveryoung]

2 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

I guess you could make the argument that our first eleven is close to theirs although in Leicester’s case I think even that is a stretch.

Neither of those clubs have subs benches made up of the likes of Nakamba and El Ghazi and a bunch of kids which is a pretty big difference too.

I think we would have to stoop a bit low if we think none of our players would get in the Leicester team, as someone said. I mean they are hardly man City?

[a m ole]

3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

True enough, but does he know more than, a Rodgers or Moyes for instance. If not, is this may be our problem?

He may know less about some things, but more about others? Let’s not pretend both of those managers haven’t had shocking defeats.