AntrimBlack Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Do we think that overall recruitment was poor. I think it was, but interested to know what others think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 From the various posts it would appear that the opinion is that the responsibility for the recruitment since the new owners came in is spread across the recruitment team and the manager, and it seems that no matter which division we are in next season we may need to consider all positions except that of Purslow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: From the various posts it would appear that the opinion is that the responsibility for the recruitment since the new owners came in is spread across the recruitment team and the manager, and it seems that no matter which division we are in next season we may need to consider all positions except that of Purslow. I don't think anyone knows who is ultimately responsible but whoever it is should be fired because they've made a right mess of it all. I know we needed a lot of players, but to not sign one outfield player (arguable) that is good enough for the Premier League is f***** tragic. I am not even the slighest bit on the fence when it comes to our recruitment. It was an unmitigated disaster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said: Do we think that overall recruitment was poor. I think it was, but interested to know what others think. We were always going to encounter issues due to the amount of players required balanced against FFP. Trez aside all have shown enough for me and am still relatively happy overall with last summers business. It would also depend on what was discussed in the summer in terms of type of player required for example Smith May have asked for a specific kind of DM to fit into his philosophy so they scouted Luiz and Nakamba. This is why i find it easier to question smith than Suso as I have no idea what the remit set was by NSWE & Co and whether he achieved what was set out. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, thabucks said: We were always going to encounter issues due to the amount of players required balanced against FFP. Trez aside all have shown enough for me and am still relatively happy overall with last summers business. It would also depend on what was discussed in the summer in terms of type of player required for example Smith May have asked for a specific kind of DM to fit into his philosophy so they scouted Luiz and Nakamba. This is why i find it easier to question smith than Suso as I have no idea what the remit set was by NSWE & Co and whether he achieved what was set out. As I've said before I'm still fairly happy with business last year but disappointed we didnt get an additional striker and a couple of our projects we brought werent established players. I think we over extended ourselves in buying projects but generally ok. In hindsight some of those projects havent advanced as much as they should and none, which I'm really disappointed about, have made a real difference in their first year. I'm still expecting some to really grow into PL players over the coming seasons but that doesnt help us now. I'm guessing that our management team thought some of them would hit the ground running like Luiz who has some good talent but it's only been in fits and starts. So overall I'm relatively happy with the recruitment because on paper at the time they looked good acquisitions. I've seen bits from most of them that they could get better but disappointed we havent seen more from them. Is that Smith's fault, I dont know or just lack of mental readiness from those players. Losing McGinn was a big loss for us when it happened but overall I think one or two established premiership buys or loans will be the downfall of this season if we do get relegated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, nick76 said: As I've said before I'm still fairly happy with business last year but disappointed we didnt get an additional striker and a couple of our projects we brought werent established players. I think we over extended ourselves in buying projects but generally ok. In hindsight some of those projects havent advanced as much as they should and none, which I'm really disappointed about, have made a real difference in their first year. I'm still expecting some to really grow into PL players over the coming seasons but that doesnt help us now. I'm guessing that our management team thought some of them would hit the ground running like Luiz who has some good talent but it's only been in fits and starts. So overall I'm relatively happy with the recruitment because on paper at the time they looked good acquisitions. I've seen bits from most of them that they could get better but disappointed we havent seen more from them. Is that Smith's fault, I dont know or just lack of mental readiness from those players. Losing McGinn was a big loss for us when it happened but overall I think one or two established premiership buys or loans will be the downfall of this season if we do get relegated. Wesley, Jota, Konsa - didn't look good at the time - and my word look at the fees - £40m on those 3 alone ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, hippo said: Wesley, Jota, Konsa - didn't look good at the time - and my word look at the fees - £40m on those 3 alone ! Jota was a 3 million signing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 hours ago, AntrimBlack said: But he would surely have only laid out what the owners wanted and it was then up to others to try to carry out his wishes. I am interested to know who actually would have had the final say in the particular players we bought. And I cannot believe it would be Edens. No it wouldn't be Edens but he's fully up for the let's sign majority of players under 25 policy even if they have limited top level experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Wesley doesn't get assaulted by Ben Mee he would be on 12/13 goals by now and with a few assists too. He was starting to get good and used to the speed of the League. Konsa is a young player who has shown ability but a lack of experience. Jota is too lightweight but cost 3million. Two experienced cloggers in our squad in addition to what we have and we would've won more points. Dean Smith has an experienced number 2 and we are closer to safety imo. Another manager.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said: Do we think that overall recruitment was poor. I think it was, but interested to know what others think. Yes considering in the championship we managed to attract names like Terry, Tammy Abraham, Snodgrass. I was expecting similar quality to replace them with the pull of premier league but guess it just shows the pull of being a big pull in a lower division and we simply aren't a big draw in premier league anymore. I'd rather Suso had used his contacts at Atletico Madrid and Valencia personally considering he's worked for both in the past. Both have pretty good players on the bench we could've loaned for a season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 The thing that was wrong with our summer recruitment wasn't so much who we signed, I think some of them could still turn out to be very good players, the problem was more who we didn't sign. Could have done with a more experienced defender to play alongside Mings. And more experience in midfield as well, and by experienced I don't mean old, just players who've performed to a decent level in one of the top leagues. As it is if you look at our midfield, we had McGinn who's only ever played in Scotland and the championship, Hourihane the highest level he had played at is the championship, Nakamba's played in Holland and Belgium, Luiz has played in Spain but he wasn't a regular in the Girona team. Also could have done with another striker and a better winger than Trezeguet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 23, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 23, 2020 Let's face it, this season was not the season to go all in on the young and hungry route. If we stay up then next year onwards is the time for that. But we spent all that money (which we HAD to do) and ended up with very very little Premier League experience to keep us up this year. There is no guarantee but we made it more likely we were going to struggle with the amount of experience we had. It's a gamble you can make in Basketball because if it goes wrong, you just go again next year. Relegation changes the landscape in football. You have to get it right and we really haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parisvilla Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 8 hours ago, AntrimBlack said: Do we think that overall recruitment was poor. I think it was, but interested to know what others think. You have to say it was poor - even when acknowleding it was an extremely challenging situation needing so many players to fill the squad. With hindsight we've fallen into a similar trap to the Sherwood summer when we bought with an eye on future potential and re-sale value (Gana, Adama, Vertout, Amavi etc) and didn't get the balance right with some PL experience. I wouldn't have thought much of it at the time but Gary Cahill would have been a brilliant signing this summer. We've lacked know how and leaders in the side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Zatman said: Jota was a 3 million signing So what ? - it was £3m totally and utterly wasted - the player wasn't cutting it in the championship - always massively against him cutting it in the PL. And u23 would have had no lesser impact. ....and what was Konsa ? £9m ....my word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Zatman said: Jota was a 3 million signing Not trying to defend others on here, but the cost of Jota is irrelevant. McGinn cost approx 3 million didn’t he? My concern is has Jota and others made a contribution this season? I would say little to none and in view of this, he was a waste of money. Good scouting means you can spot gems in lower and foreign leagues without needing to spend big money. Our 130-150 million recruitment spend during last summer has by and large been a disaster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digavilla Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, parisvilla said: You have to say it was poor - even when acknowleding it was an extremely challenging situation needing so many players to fill the squad. With hindsight we've fallen into a similar trap to the Sherwood summer when we bought with an eye on future potential and re-sale value (Gana, Adama, Vertout, Amavi etc) and didn't get the balance right with some PL experience. I wouldn't have thought much of it at the time but Gary Cahill would have been a brilliant signing this summer. We've lacked know how and leaders in the side. Maybe their argument was that why we need experienced Cahill type defender when we already have Terry on board ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 I'm afraid you'd have to rate our summer recruitment as poor, whichever division we're in next season we're going to have to sign another bunch just to make up for it. When you look at the signings... Wesley, Mings, Luiz, Targett, Konsa, Nakamba, Samatta, Trezeguet, El Ghazi, Heaton, Engels, Jota, Hause, Borja, Drinkwater, Reina, and Barry And ask which of those would we be genuinely upset to leave, I'd say Mings, Heaton, and Luiz because of immense potential are the only ones, and Barry of course... That's not to say that some of others don't have potential to improve and become good players for us, but for the amount we spent and the amount we bought in you'd have thought that at least some of them would have made a bigger impression that they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 10 hours ago, useless said: I'm afraid you'd have to rate our summer recruitment as poor, whichever division we're in next season we're going to have to sign another bunch just to make up for it. When you look at the signings... Wesley, Mings, Luiz, Targett, Konsa, Nakamba, Samatta, Trezeguet, El Ghazi, Heaton, Engels, Jota, Hause, Borja, Drinkwater, Reina, and Barry And ask which of those would we be genuinely upset to leave, I'd say Mings, Heaton, and Luiz because of immense potential are the only ones, and Barry of course... That's not to say that some of others don't have potential to improve and become good players for us, but for the amount we spent and the amount we bought in you'd have thought that at least some of them would have made a bigger impression that they have. If we are in the Championship next season, which is very likely in my view, we will be in a much better position than last time we went down. Heaton, Targett, Mings, Luiz, McGinn will arguably be the best players, in their position, in the league. Engels/Konsa/Hause, Marvelous, Wesley/Davis/Samatta will be amongst the best. Use some of the Jack money to buy a decent right back, a decent centre mid and a couple of decent wide midfielders and we are set. The most important signing is of course a decent manager who will make the players we already have look even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, hippo said: Wesley, Jota, Konsa - didn't look good at the time - and my word look at the fees - £40m on those 3 alone ! Jota was just a player swap wasn't he? Fine by me personally, even if he isn't good enough. Konsa I like. I actually would have preferred more young English players like this as opposed to the route we went. Wesley was and is shocking. As is Trez. Fact is that we spent around £ 30+ million on these two, to be a goalscoring threat in the PL. That's mental. I have no idea who thought that was a good idea, but they should be relieved of any scouting from now on. Wesley pound for pound is probably the worst signing I've seen this club make. Absolutely horrendous. That he actually got a symbolic national cap would be funny if it wasn't for the likelyhood it probably activated another clause in the purchase. Edited June 24, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 12 hours ago, parisvilla said: You have to say it was poor - even when acknowleding it was an extremely challenging situation needing so many players to fill the squad. With hindsight we've fallen into a similar trap to the Sherwood summer when we bought with an eye on future potential and re-sale value (Gana, Adama, Vertout, Amavi etc) and didn't get the balance right with some PL experience. I wouldn't have thought much of it at the time but Gary Cahill would have been a brilliant signing this summer. We've lacked know how and leaders in the side. The problem with buying young players like we did first time round is if you get relegated there's a fire sale and most leave. If we went down we'd either keep them (unlikely) or mostly all go for a couple of mil to the satellite leagues around Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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