John McGinn

[Zatman]

He needs a few games on the bench, this guaranteed starter bullshit has gone on too long 

Even Jack was dropped by previous managers

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, Phil Silvers said:

He's a key player, when he's good we are great , when he isn't we fall apart. He needs that consistency as you say, he's like a 4.5 to a 8.5 at any given time, if he could find a regular 7+/10 we gel. So frustrating at times.

Exactly, we would be better with a consistent 6 or 7/10 player than a flip flop between 4.5 and 8.5 performances.

[Tom13]

2 hours ago, Zatman said:

He needs a few games on the bench, this guaranteed starter bullshit has gone on too long 

Even Jack was dropped by previous managers

I don't remember Jack ever being dropped by Smith unless it was a fitness issue.

[Zatman]

5 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

I don't remember Jack ever being dropped by Smith unless it was a fitness issue.

No but at the start under Bruce he didnt play regularly and was sometimes used from the bench

[A'Villan]

Nothing some good coaching can't fix.

I feel it's the same with Luiz and our overall predicament in midfield. 

[Delphinho123]

He has zero ability to play quick, intricate football in his own half. His one move is to receive the ball, whether under pressure or not, and stick his arse out to either try and win a foul or roll his man. It basically results in us coming under more pressure and eventually playing long ball football. 

McGinn would be much better suited playing further forward, almost as one of the number 10's, shooting from range and winning the ball back high up the pitch but we have a lot of quality there so that can't happen. 
Right now, he is hampering us because we simply can't get the ball into our number 10's / strikers quick enough. We can't beat the press and a large part of that is the central midfield. 

If we're offered anything over £30m in the Summer, I'd take it and reinvest. He is a very likeable player and can be brilliant on his day, but he puts in more substandard performances than good performances and I don't think his overall style is conducive with possession football.

I've kind of done a 180 on John tbh. He's a loveable character and he isn't a bad player, it's just we have to ask ourselves why we can't get into the top half of the table when we have some very good players in the team like Coutinho. Unfortunately, it's because the likes of Luiz and McGinn aren't good enough. 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

I've been worried about McGinn since the Championship.

For over eighteen months I've been saying he hinders our style, putting us constantly under pressure as he gets caught on the ball.

It's terrible to watch, I just hope he gets benched as it might salvage our season.

[M_Afro]

Most of his good performances come when he plays high up the pitch. Most of his poor performances come when he plays a deeper role. He either needs to win a place as a 10 which is unlikely or he should be dropped.

I love SJM but I would be happy to sell him in the summer and replace him with somebody better suited to our formation. I think the same could be said for Luis too to be honest.

[PerryBarrPet]

5 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

Most of his good performances come when he plays high up the pitch. Most of his poor performances come when he plays a deeper role. He either needs to win a place as a 10 which is unlikely or he should be dropped.

I love SJM but I would be happy to sell him in the summer and replace him with somebody better suited to our formation. I think the same could be said for Luis too to be honest.

Agree with this. He often plays high up the pitch for Scotland also.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

Well McGinn isn't taking a place from Ramsey, Buendia or Coutinho so he must be dropped.

He's getting swamped in midfield because hes too slow.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

On 09/08/2019 at 23:51, Zhan_Zhuang said:

It will be interesting... 

I live in Aberdeen and the Scots don't think he's good at all, they don't think he can step up.

That's not my opinion but we'll wait and see I guess!

 

On 09/08/2019 at 23:58, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Brown is so overrated, always has been.

I've not met anyone up here who rates McGinn, they say he's a headless chicken, runs down cul-de-sacs (at international level), I wonder if that's because Scotland try to play with him as their focus? Don't know as I've never seen him play at international level...

 

On 10/08/2019 at 11:10, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I've seen John McGinn play. I don't need opinions from Aberdeen to tell me whether he's good enough or not. 

 

On 10/08/2019 at 14:01, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Although not in the PL, hence my point...we don't know whether he's good enough at this level. Got nothing to do with Aberdeen, I think it's a general Scottish feeling from his international appearances which by all accounts have been rather average.

How was McGinn playing when our form was terrible in the Championship? 

 

On 10/08/2019 at 14:08, Zhan_Zhuang said:

By the way, I want to be wrong about this and hope McGinn is a PL sensation.

Just worried by some of the comments from folks up here...

UTV

Just saying, I've never really been sold...I know he's good for Scotland but he can't play that role at Villa.

I hoped he'd be good but we need a change now!

Edited February 14, 2022 by Zhan_Zhuang

[Philosopher]

I love John Mcginn. However I have always felt that in the premier league he is nowhere near being a top midfielder. I think pundits, and commentators are always very quick to compliment him everytime he does something good, but never criticise him when he plays poorly, and i think that influences a lot of us to think he is better than what he is.

I think if we were playing a counter attacking, direct style with at least one big man, a lump of a sitter behind him and another tenacious hard worker alongside him he'd be great.

In a short passing tiki -taka system, his limitations are laid bare. Inconsistent short passing, not particularly agile, doesn't play with his head up enough, not particularly adept a that intricate interplay in tight areas. His thing is putting himself about, driving out with the ball, and looking for the quick ball forward to release the forward players, then getting forward quickly in support.

Now Ramsey has emerged we have a player better at driving out, quicker at getting forward in support and technically better at most things. Not sure Mcginn has a future as regular starter for us as long as Ramsey is at the club. The funny thing is I think Luiz if played alongside one of those two in central midfield would be a good foil (particularly Ramsey). Luiz is decent defensively (not for a sitting DM, but for a dynamic CM), keeps the ball well, is quick and is good at linking up with those around him.  I think a DM that can actually sit and defend well, with intelligent positioning that then uses the ball well, we would look a lot better in central midfield.

[Zatman]

13 hours ago, Philosopher said:

I love John Mcginn. However I have always felt that in the premier league he is nowhere near being a top midfielder. I think pundits, and commentators are always very quick to compliment him everytime he does something good, but never criticise him when he plays poorly, and i think that influences a lot of us to think he is better than what he is.

I think if we were playing a counter attacking, direct style with at least one big man, a lump of a sitter behind him and another tenacious hard worker alongside him he'd be great.

In a short passing tiki -taka system, his limitations are laid bare. Inconsistent short passing, not particularly agile, doesn't play with his head up enough, not particularly adept a that intricate interplay in tight areas. His thing is putting himself about, driving out with the ball, and looking for the quick ball forward to release the forward players, then getting forward quickly in support.

Now Ramsey has emerged we have a player better at driving out, quicker at getting forward in support and technically better at most things. Not sure Mcginn has a future as regular starter for us as long as Ramsey is at the club. The funny thing is I think Luiz if played alongside one of those two in central midfield would be a good foil (particularly Ramsey). Luiz is decent defensively (not for a sitting DM, but for a dynamic CM), keeps the ball well, is quick and is good at linking up with those around him.  I think a DM that can actually sit and defend well, with intelligent positioning that then uses the ball well, we would look a lot better in central midfield.

Was some United pundit criticizing McTominay saying he cant get in the Scotland team ahead of McGinn. Then he said because we all know McGinn is a top class player 

[Sulberto21]

I thought he turned a new leaf under Gerrard but he’s gone back to his “must play the Hollywood pass at all times “ . When he is selective in his passing he’s so much better for us. 
 

 

 

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, Sulberto21 said:

I thought he turned a new leaf under Gerrard but he’s gone back to his “must play the Hollywood pass at all times “ . When he is selective in his passing he’s so much better for us. 

It's not about that, for me. McGinn needs to work hard to make up for his technical shortcomings as a player but all too often he doesn't want to run, or more accurately, he'll do something for show a couple of times a game to make it look as though he is working hard.

[Tomaszk]

Be surprised if he doesn't start.

Luiz will probably be dropped.

[OutByEaster?]

I don't think the system is helping him a great deal - McGinn is currently spending a lot of time playing as a de-facto left back and he's not a very good left back because he hasn't got the pace to cover wingers. Ramsey copes on the other side because he's got the running power to get up and down the pitch, McGinn doesn't have that, he has a decent five or ten yard burst, but he doesn't have the wider ability to cover and get forward, so he's stuck in a sort of vaguely defensive high left back position at times.

 

 

 

[Richie k]

Him and luiz arent fast enough to cover the full backs and both looked like slouches since the few weeks break

[tomav84]

10 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't think the system is helping him a great deal - McGinn is currently spending a lot of time playing as a de-facto left back and he's not a very good left back because he hasn't got the pace to cover wingers. Ramsey copes on the other side because he's got the running power to get up and down the pitch, McGinn doesn't have that, he has a decent five or ten yard burst, but he doesn't have the wider ability to cover and get forward, so he's stuck in a sort of vaguely defensive high left back position at times.

 

 

 

i noticed it in gerrard's first game. i didn't get it then and i dont get it now

if we had ridiculously good full backs capable of getting to the goal line and putting in decent crosses in on a regular basis then i totally would understand it. appreciate gerrard trying something a little different, but he needs to get his own personnel in first. mcginn is not the man for this style

[bobzy]

On 13/02/2022 at 21:50, andym said:

Yep, for comparison, the average passing accuracy over the season so far for comparable 'main midfielders' at some of the better teams:

• Rodri - 94%
• Rice - 93%
• Bissouma - 89%
• Jorginho - 89%
• Hoijberg - 88%
• McTominay - 85%
• Moutinho - 85%
• Romeu - 83%
• Tielemans - 81%

McGinn ?  74%. Shockingly bad in comparison.

It was only 78% last season as well. Luiz and Ramsey at least break 80%.

He only has 3 goals and 2 assists attacking wise, and he's not exactly great defensively. 

If Gerrard thinks we are ever going to consistently control games building a side around McGinn, he needs to think again.

Not sure where these figures are from, but McGinn currently at 79% which would be expected compared to those you've listed (bar Tielemans) as they sit deeper and play shorter passes to feet.  I imagine most attack-minded midfielders will be somewhere between 82% and 75% for passing accuracy and I'd also expect McGinn to be in the middle of this range as he isn't particularly known for passing ability.

 

I don't know if I'm surprised by the dislike of him or not.  He played badly against Newcastle (particularly with a free kick towards the end which he literally passed straight to one of their players ) but he's the main midfielder for getting the ball moving.  Actually, that may be Ramsey now, but McGinn certainly looks for more of the "through ball"/"over the top"/"switch play" balls than anyone else in our side.  At the same time, he has the tenacity to win the ball back - better than any of our other midfielders (although, again, I think Ramsey is good at this).

Those two, for me, are vital to how we want to play.