Birkir Bjarnason

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

Whelan's is very inconsistent. But as an average it's better, although has visibly dropped off in recent games.

Yeah that was a general question not a dig at whelan. But i dont think we will see much of whelan now (injuries permitting) this jedinak and even tuanzebe are all ahead of him now. 

But thors positioning seems better and touch wood passing is good too. He keeps it simple. I know it's only been a few games but the change around in him has been remarkable. I had written him off.

The tough decision will be against blose as they play play with phyiscal players in cm and Thor might struggle in that one as opposed to a animal like jedinak

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, limvillian said:

Is that an average over the season? If so it's very skewed. As Bikir has played on the wing and full back where pass completion is usually much lower than DCM. 

Whelan's average over the season is better than BB's average playing at DCM.

BB has had PS% of 75, 78.9 and 80 playing at DM (The last 3 games)

Whelan's average for the season is 80.1%

 

FWIW, Jedinak's is skewed by sporadic sub appearances at the start of the season. But for games where he's played 90 minutes he's had 87, 82.9, 81.3, 86.2 and 81.6%

 

 

In fact, even discounting games where he hasn't played DM, BB's pass completion % is the lowest of all of our midfielders.

 

Edit: This sounds like a really detailed dig at BB. Wasn't meant that way. I just find this stuff interesting so when I start looking into it I get carried away  

Edited January 31, 2018 by Stevo985

[limvillian]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Whelan's average over the season is better than BB's average playing at DCM.

BB has had PS% of 75, 78.9 and 80 playing at DM (The last 3 games)

Whelan's average for the season is 81%

 

FWIW, Jedinak's is skewed by sporadic sub appearances at the start of the season. But for games where he's played 90 minutes he's had 87, 82.9, 81.3, 86.2 and 81.6%

 

 

In fact, even discounting games where he hasn't played DM, BB's pass completion % is the lowest of all of our midfielders.

 

Edit: This sounds like a really detailed dig at BB. Wasn't meant that way. I just find this stuff interesting so when I start looking into it I get carried away  

No no. It's good to see the facts laid out.

[Dante_Lockhart]

1 hour ago, Dick said:

He might not have the physicality, but that isn’t always important. He has good energy and uses the ball well when he does win it. I think sometimes that is better than somebody who is big and strong, but lacks finesse.

NRC >_>

[Demitri_C]

Thanks for that info Stevo, very interesting, 

[bannedfromHandV]

Struggled for the first half hour, along with the rest of the team.

Got it together for the last hour though, again along with the rest of the team.

Played a few nice passes, I think we're definitely benefiting from his energy levels in the middle of the pitch.

[Nigel]

45 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Whelan's average over the season is better than BB's average playing at DCM.

BB has had PS% of 75, 78.9 and 80 playing at DM (The last 3 games)

Whelan's average for the season is 81%

 

FWIW, Jedinak's is skewed by sporadic sub appearances at the start of the season. But for games where he's played 90 minutes he's had 87, 82.9, 81.3, 86.2 and 81.6%

 

 

In fact, even discounting games where he hasn't played DM, BB's pass completion % is the lowest of all of our midfielders.

 

Edit: This sounds like a really detailed dig at BB. Wasn't meant that way. I just find this stuff interesting so when I start looking into it I get carried away  

The more pertinent stat would be where the passes were misplaced, which would be very hard to work out obviously.

For example losing the ball higher up the pitch attempting a forward pass would be a lot less important than losing possesson as the last man.

Now I'm casting aspersions here but I'd guess this could skew thors passing stats more than whelans or jedis, as his better movement would mean he would spend more time up with the attacking play.

Obviously this isn't based on fact but could show those stats up slightly. 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Nigel

[Rob182]

41 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Whelan's average over the season is better than BB's average playing at DCM.

BB has had PS% of 75, 78.9 and 80 playing at DM (The last 3 games)

Whelan's average for the season is 81%

 

FWIW, Jedinak's is skewed by sporadic sub appearances at the start of the season. But for games where he's played 90 minutes he's had 87, 82.9, 81.3, 86.2 and 81.6%

 

 

In fact, even discounting games where he hasn't played DM, BB's pass completion % is the lowest of all of our midfielders.

 

Edit: This sounds like a really detailed dig at BB. Wasn't meant that way. I just find this stuff interesting so when I start looking into it I get carried away  

Why are you using BB's % from his sub appearance 3 games ago, but not using any of Jedinak's sub appearance percentages?

 

Surely we should use 'all' appearances, sub or otherwise, of all players we're comparing, or we should only look at full 90-minute appearances of those players.

[omariqy]

Isn't nice to be having these conversations rather than talking about the next scandal involving a Villa player? Cue a James Nursey article about Terry being a Trump supporter.

[alreadyexists]

11 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Struggled for the first half hour, along with the rest of the team.

Got it together for the last hour though, again along with the rest of the team.

Played a few nice passes, I think we're definitely benefiting from his energy levels in the middle of the pitch.

True. His energy and blocking of the ball, albeit ‘last ditch’ in some cases, helped us see the game out. 

[bose]

Where did you get those stats Stevo?

At least using Squawka comparing BB last three matches (which includes one sub appearance) to GW season then BB has a 79% pass completion compared to 80% for Whelan. Very similar and BBs passing % has been getting better each game. Admittedly a small sample but we'll probably get a better picture after more games.

Another interesting stat is comparing duels won, 50% for BB vs 40% for Whelan. Furthermore if you compare average defensive actions (interceptions, blocks and clearances), BB has 7 vs 4 for Whelan.

Edited January 31, 2018 by bose

[Stevo985]

17 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Why are you using BB's % from his sub appearance 3 games ago, but not using any of Jedinak's sub appearance percentages?

 

Surely we should use 'all' appearances, sub or otherwise, of all players we're comparing, or we should only look at full 90-minute appearances of those players.

Well it was kind of a mish mash. I started with BB's games at DM only because that's what someone asked and compared it to Whelan's total average.

Then to compare it with Jedinak's total average I noticed that Jedinak's stats from earlier in the season were low, but he was only making 20 minute appearances here and there. So I excluded them as his PS% when he plays a full 90 minutes is massivley higher.

If you exclude BB's 45 mins vs Forest then his average goes up slightly but it's still lower than Jedinak's and Whelan's, although I haven't done the work to go through and only include Whelan's 90 minute games. I figured his sample was big enough.

[Stevo985]

8 minutes ago, bose said:

Where did you get those stats Stevo?

At least using Squawka comparing BB last three matches (which includes one sub appearance) to GW season then BB has a 79% pass completion compared to 80% for Whelan. Very similar and BBs passing % has been getting better each game. Admittedly a small sample but we'll probably get a better picture after more games.

Another interesting stat is comparing duels won, 50% for BB vs 40% for Whelan. Furthermore if you compare average defensive actions (interceptions, blocks and clearances), BB has 7 vs 4 for Whelan.

Whoscored.com.

Apologies, typo in my Whelan Stat. It was 80.1%, not 81%. I'll correct it.

[villaglint]

For me it's pros and cons with all of them. Jedi is clearly the more solid defender and masterful in the air which in a lot of championship games is very important. He's limited if not pants on the ball. BB is decent enough in the tackle, very good work rate and mobility. I also like the fact that he will notice a gap move with the ball into it and then pick a pass he did this a couple of times last night where he went past a player and then found a pass through the lines. Both times it created an attack and I'm not sure I've ever seen Jedi or Whelan do that. 

Whelan is somewhere in between the two, he's not as limited on the ball as Jedi but not as good as BB. He's more aggressive than BB but not as much as Jedi. He's less mobile than BB probably about the same as Jedi. 

All in all seems like we have 3 adequate DMs for the division which as with our RB situation (before RDM left) is probably overkill. For me motivation is key, players who come in are playing for their place. It's BBs shirt right now. Jedi will get his chance. To be honest I think BB can put pressure on Hourihane too, he's had one or two flat performances recently and we know BB has good timing/if not finishing when arriving in the box. 

[Villarocker]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Struggled for the first half hour, along with the rest of the team.

Got it together for the last hour though, again along with the rest of the team.

Played a few nice passes, I think we're definitely benefiting from his energy levels in the middle of the pitch.

Exactly what I thought!

I think he adds energy and, the team seems to break quicker with him in midfield? Don't forget that shot he blocked last night too, which looked goal-bound.

[KSV]

Wow hes a different player in the DM role. Clearly not a winger. Doesnt have the pace nor the skill to play out wide at this level. Midfield is definitely his go. His work rate along with Hourihane.. they do the dirty work that allows Jack to get forward with Adomah and Snodgrass. Keep him in. 

[bobzy]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

In fact, even discounting games where he hasn't played DM, BB's pass completion % is the lowest of all of our midfielders.

Edit: This sounds like a really detailed dig at BB. Wasn't meant that way. I just find this stuff interesting so when I start looking into it I get carried away  

Would be almost 100% confident that Bjarnason plays many, many more forward passes than the others, though, so the "risk factor" is higher.  ("Key Passes" may demonstrate that, I dunno).

[Gillz]

The whole BB vs Jedinak debate comes down to a simple Horses for Courses for me.

 

If the opposition are going to be more physical, long ball and direct, then we should play Jedi

If the opposition are going to play the ball on the ground, with pace and passing, then we play BB.

 

Its just great to have options.

[Stevo985]

30 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Would be almost 100% confident that Bjarnason plays many, many more forward passes than the others, though, so the "risk factor" is higher.  ("Key Passes" may demonstrate that, I dunno).

If I can be bothered later I'll work it out. Would be interesting to see.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's not the case though. I think the passing backwards thing is a lazy criticism of Whelan, something he doesn't actually do that much, same as when people used to level it at Westwood.

But we'll see.

[TheMelvillan]

16 minutes ago, Gillz said:

The whole BB vs Jedinak debate comes down to a simple Horses for Courses for me.

 

If the opposition are going to be more physical, long ball and direct, then we should play Jedi

If the opposition are going to play the ball on the ground, with pace and passing, then we play BB.

 

Its just great to have options.

and if we want to pass the ball back to the centre backs every. time. we. have. possession. we play Whelan