Tony Xia (no longer involved with AVFC)

[LondonLax]

Just now, bannedfromHandV said:

Or, maybe he wanted the fans to know that we tried to move him on but he refused to consider it, why shouldn't we get to know that?

 

You assume it's because he wants the attention, that doesn't make it so, unless you're privy to his inner thoughts?

 

There's a lot of change occurring at Villa and if my experience of change tells me anything it's that there will always be resistance in some quarters.

We all want more information from the club and what is going on. 

The owner letting us know that Gabby has been disciplined or that the club has deemed Gabby's behaviour unacceptable and wished to move him on is one thing, that is information we would all be interested in hearing about. 

However, the owner calling him names is not information, it is a case of pandering for likes to a section of the fanbase who will lap that up. 

[Richard]

46 minutes ago, Butterfingers said:

No

In the case of Bennett, he was free to move but chose not to because it would have meant a drop in wages.  The criticism is that it was suggested that we were holding back his career.  He held his own career back by placing money before his career.  No complaint with that but don't criticise Villa for refusing to subsidise his career away from VP.  Nobody subsidises the players we sign.

 

Sorry but you are wrong on the facts of the matter.  In the case of Bennett he was happy to move to Sheffield Wednesday,  the terms of the deal largely irrelevant as it was the OWNER of AVFC who called off that deal because he didnt want to subsidise the costs of another football club,  it wasnt bennett who called the deal off

[TRO]

3 hours ago, peterms said:

Thanks for actually addressing the point.  So many comments miss it entirely, by going on about what an arse Gabby is (yes, he may well be, and there's a whole thread for that, but the point here is whether it is appropriate for the head of an organisation to tweet stuff like this).

So you say (I paraphrase) that while it is clearly inappropriate in most cases for the head of an organisation to slag off staff publicly, it's different for players (at a certain level, I guess), players are untouchable and public shaming is the only way to deal with them.

Well it's clearly not the only way to deal with them.  If their conduct is unacceptable you can fine them or move them on.  Our favourite song is about someone who that happened to, by the way.  If they won't move on, you can cancel the contract and pay them out (this site is replete with "it's not my money, I don't care how much he spends").  Don't like the terms of the contract?  Well as the employer, that's down to you, and clubs generally have done the whole game a massive disservice by agreeing stupid contracts over decades now.  If a player does something bad enough, make a case that they have terminated their own contract.  It's been done before.  But if someone just won't agree to a move you want, then you either have to find some other use for them, or else negotiate an acceptable outcome.

So is the argument that players get so much money that it's all right to treat them in ways you wouldn't treat other staff?  I can see that from the fans' perspective.  There is something different between shouting at a player and shouting at a steward or a catering assistant.  But from the employer, the head of the club?  I don't see it.  It is unnecessary, undignified, out of place, and not what we all expect or accept in an employer-employee relationship.

I really suspect that most people defending this are just imagining what they would like to say to Gabby, and taking pleasure that someone has done it for them.  But that's really not the point.  Which is not to say that players are above criticism.  If someone was dropped for unfitness or misconduct, then say so, and if it embarrasses them but is true and a valid reason for dropping them, too bad.  But this stuff about being a man is just puerile shite, in my view.

Oh - and wouldn't being a "man" involve standing up for yourself, rather than bending over and taking it because it suits the boss?  Just a thought.

 

......the puerile shit might be contagious?

[Villarocker]

3 hours ago, Richard said:

Firstly it is getting into the player management and motivation area,  something that actually is the responsibility of the manager.  He has to manage the player motivation and much as any of us may want different Gabby is a still a member of the playing staff.  What has been said here could impact that greatly

Secondly,  well it's ok it's about Gabby.  But what if it was about a player who is more popular? What if that criticism continued through the season regarding performances of said players who were then expected to play for us again? very unwise

Thirdly if you were a player who Villa were interested in and maybe wanted to come to the club,  this could very well lead that player to think "stuff that dont want the owner going public with everything we have said first time of asking thanks very much i'll go elsewhere"

It is unprofessional,  it is not respectful of an employee (and I say this as someone who dislikes Gabby totally) and it has the very great danger of stepping on the managers toes.  Under no illusion that this opinion will be popular but I genuinely feel he should not have tweeted this or anything like it again

1) How long has it been since any Villa manager managed to motivate Agbonlahor? How long has Tony Xia been at the club and yet he has already grown frustrated with him so something must clearly be amiss with the players attitude.

2) What if it was a more popular player? If a player was that popular we wouldn't be looking to offload him in the first place and the club owner would be happy with him, surely?

3) If I was a player who knew that I was going to f**k about then I wouldn't want to come to the Villa with an owner who holds no punches. But, if I was a player with a professional attitude it wouldn't bother me at all. In fact, I would be happy to join a club knowing that the management would be making sure that everyone pulls their weight or they would be shown the door!

It could be deemed unprofessional and in a normal workplace would probably give the member of staff cause for claiming constructive dismissal or something like that. But, how many times have us fans felt cheated and let down by Agbonlahor's (and many others) performances? People pay to see him give his all for the club and he clearly hasn't, on too many occasions to mention. I like the fact that the owner only wants players here who deserve the money they are paid, which comes in part from us lot paying to watch them.

Safe to say, I am 100% behind Dr Xia on this occasion. Fair play to him for telling it how it is.  

[VILLAMARV]

4 hours ago, peterms said:

It is unnecessary, undignified, out of place, and not what we all expect or accept in an employer-employee relationship.

 

4 hours ago, jimcohen said:

because this stuff is normally kept in house as it may upset other players.

These are the only responses I can see that tackle why they feel it's wrong. Apart from @Richard who pointed out he feels its Xia overstepping the boundaries of the Managers areas of responsibility -

Quote

It is unprofessional,  it is not respectful of an employee (and I say this as someone who dislikes Gabby totally) and it has the very great danger of stepping on the managers toes.

Sorry if Ive missed someone out.
In my opinion the disrespect is obvious, and intentional on Xia's behalf. So you all have a perfectly valid point. Some people aren't bothered by it. Others are revelling in it. That seems to be the main focus of everyones attention anyway. The ideas of it's not what we expect or it's normally done a different way come from a position of 'That's not the way we do things round here' though and I dont have a response emotionally or intellectually to that line of reasoning.

[PieFacE]

I was very skeptical of Xia at first but blimey, he's given it a good go this window and I don't think us as fans can really be disappointed in the business we've done. He's addressed all the issues within the squad that needed sorting, and I really hope his enthusiasm for being the owner of this football club filters down to the coaching staff and players. Compared to how the club was run the last few years, it's a breath of fresh air (I'm still not comfortable with all the twitter stuff but at least he cares).

My only concern is, and this may be completely unfounded or maybe not, is what happens if we do not get promoted in 2 years? I don't think I could take another disinterest owner. I know there's also no point in worrying about something that's not happened yet, and i'm not worrying, but I am cautious about our future and the amount of money we've just spent. If we do not go back up in 2 years, we could be in trouble.

But, for now, he's delivered on his word, there's no reason why this squad cannot get promoted, over to you RDM, no pressure  

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, LondonLax said:

We all want more information from the club and what is going on. 

The owner letting us know that Gabby has been disciplined or that the club has deemed Gabby's behaviour unacceptable and wished to move him on is one thing, that is information we would all be interested in hearing about. 

However, the owner calling him names is not information, it is a case of pandering for likes to a section of the fanbase who will lap that up. 

What names has he called him, I must have missed that.....

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, Richard said:

Sorry but you are wrong on the facts of the matter.  In the case of Bennett he was happy to move to Sheffield Wednesday,  the terms of the deal largely irrelevant as it was the OWNER of AVFC who called off that deal because he didnt want to subsidise the costs of another football club,  it wasnt bennett who called the deal off

But presumably Bennett could have forgone the wage contribution from Villa in order to join Sheff Wed? 

[pas5898]

 

2 hours ago, Butterfingers said:

No

In the case of Bennett, he was free to move but chose not to because it would have meant a drop in wages.  The criticism is that it was suggested that we were holding back his career.  He held his own career back by placing money before his career.  No complaint with that but don't criticise Villa for refusing to subsidise his career away from VP.  Nobody subsidises the players we sign.

Regarding players who chose to rot in the background and pick up their money (as did N'Zogbia last year).  These people leave themselves open to criticism.

 

1 hour ago, Richard said:

Sorry but you are wrong on the facts of the matter.  In the case of Bennett he was happy to move to Sheffield Wednesday,  the terms of the deal largely irrelevant as it was the OWNER of AVFC who called off that deal because he didnt want to subsidise the costs of another football club,  it wasnt bennett who called the deal off

3

You are both right, 

Bennet was free to move, wanted to move but refused to take a pay cut, insisting that we subsidised his wages. He could have easily took a pay cut and gone to Wednesday without Dr Tony stepping in. When he refused, Dr Tony, correctly protected the best interests of the club and called off the transfer.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Perhaps instead of being fearful that their own unprofessional and selfish actions might be called out in future, we can create a culture at this club where that doesn't happen?

The previous owner allowed a 'me first' culture to flourish, this one has attempted to stamp that out. He takes no shit. You can say he's going about it the wrong way, fair enough, but you should also balance that by giving him credit for attempting to change a player power mindset that has saddled this and many other clubs for far, far too long.

I am 110% behind the owner on this one, regardless of whether the methods he employs always sit well with my sensibilities or not. The wasters and the chancers can jog on. We're not having it any more. 

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Perhaps instead of being fearful that their own unprofessional and selfish actions might be called out in future, we can create a culture at this club where that doesn't happen?

The previous owner allowed a 'me first' culture to flourish, this one has attempted to stamp that out. He takes no shit. You can say he's going about it the wrong way, fair enough, but you should also balance that by giving him credit for attempting to change a player power mindset that has saddled this and many other clubs for far, far too long.

I am 110% behind the owner on this one, regardless of whether the methods he employs always sit well with my sensibilities or not. The wasters and the chancers can jog on. We're not having it any more. 

^ What he said, with you man.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

We still have Villa fans defending his behaviour because he posts a pic of himself topless wearing Villa shorts.  

Yup, that's what did it for me.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Anyway, it's pretty funny that we are arguing about a player that is not even a part of the squad, after a summer of a positive flurry of signings.

You lot make it seem like he is standing at the entrance of Bodymoor Heath tripping up players and kicking them in the nads, just being a general"disruptive" and "negative" influence.

If we lose another game no doubt someone will come out and say "poisonous" characters like Gabby still bein here are the reason?

Btw wasn't Richards in Dubai as well, and ine of the absolute worst performers. Been at the club a much shorter time amd not half the abuse.

Edited September 1, 2016 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[dont_do_it_doug.]

We're not really arguing about Gabby. We all seem to agree on Gabby. He has his own thread for that. 

[StefanAVFC]

6 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Btw wasn't Richards in Dubai as well, and ine of the absolute worst performers. Been at the club a much shorter time amd not half the abuse.

Really? Read his thread.

[Richard]

35 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Anyway, it's pretty funny that we are arguing about a player that is not even a part of the squad, after a summer of a positive flurry of signings.

You lot make it seem like he is standing at the entrance of Bodymoor Heath tripping up players and kicking them in the nads, just being a general"disruptive" and "negative" influence.

If we lose another game no doubt someone will come out and say "poisonous" characters like Gabby still bein here are the reason?

Btw wasn't Richards in Dubai as well, and ine of the absolute worst performers. Been at the club a much shorter time amd not half the abuse.

Richards is a arsehole too,  no complaints from me.  Agbonlahor is a waste of space money leech as far as I am concerned.  I'm not really arguing any different.  I'm actually disagreeing with the way the owner has reacted to it,  not to the substantive point of Agbonlahor's total unsuitability of being a first team footballer for Aston Villa.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

46 minutes ago, Richard said:

  I'm not really arguing any different.  I'm actually disagreeing with the way the owner has reacted to it,  not to the substantive point of Agbonlahor's total unsuitability of being a first team footballer for Aston Villa.

I got that point, and that's why I had to agree with you this once . At least you have been consistent with your views/opinions.

As I said i proper have found some of the convenient flip flopping amusing, and not necessarily just with this issue.

Edited September 1, 2016 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, pas5898 said:

 

You are both right, 

Bennet was free to move, wanted to move but refused to take a pay cut, insisting that we subsidised his wages. He could have easily took a pay cut and gone to Wednesday without Dr Tony stepping in. When he refused, Dr Tony, correctly protected the best interests of the club and called off the transfer.

Once again, this is extremely common in the case of players who are sold without handing in a transfer request, it's not some kind of weird aberrant behaviour. 

[blandy]

5 hours ago, Richard said:

...  In the case of Bennett he was happy to move to Sheffield Wednesday,  the terms of the deal largely irrelevant as it was the OWNER of AVFC who called off that deal because he didnt want to subsidise the costs of another football club,  it wasnt bennett who called the deal off

This brings up something very interesting (to me, at least). From memory there was a time line which sort of said Joe Bennett is talking to Wednesday...then "a deal's done"...then...it's off. Then we later had Dr X tweet that he refused to pay towards a direct rival to use one of our players

So that, to me indicates that other people set up and agreed everything and then the Dr. stepped in and over-rode the decision. Subsequently it transpired that Cardiff took him instead, and we are not subsidising his wages, so the stepping in was good for the club.

It's the process that is interesting - the big boss having a final say, above (presumably) the manager. Perhaps the same did or didn't happen with the West Ham forward (who knows). But it shows how it now works.

As for the tweet about Gabby, no doubt the sentiment is honest and it's certainly valid, but it wasn't well put. That said I know where my sympathy lies.

  

[dont_do_it_doug.]

14 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Once again, this is extremely common in the case of players who are sold without handing in a transfer request, it's not some kind of weird aberrant behaviour. 

I was under the impression he wanted to leave?