Eastie Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: He has pumped in the best part of £100m over 8 months. He has appointed experienced people in the right places and backed his managers to a ridiculous level. Turning on Tony Xia is pathetic. Totally agree - I feel sorry for him and some of the twitter comments aimed at him are out of order - the biggest mistake for me was the appointment of RDM - he took Bruce on the recommendation of his advisers and cannot be blamed for doing so . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 2 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: He has pumped in the best part of £100m over 8 months. He has appointed experienced people in the right places and backed his managers to a ridiculous level. Turning on Tony Xia is pathetic. Who has turned on him? Just highlighted his failings. On your point thof. .. How did he ridiculously back rdm? He sacked him after 11 games. He also basically told him before the start of the season if he wasn't in the top 6 early on he'd be gone. Why is it that pumping 100m into a football club is seen as a guaranteed positive. The 100m has been spent poorly... and dare I say it'd been a lot less than 100m if he'd wound his neck in with his ridiculous statements about being the best team in Europe within 5 years. He slates the players.... on twitter. I'm all for holding the players responsible but in the right way. So he's appointed experience ppl in the right places? Wow. Hardly rocket science. And they've not even worked out so as it did with Lerner (when he employed failures), the buck stops with Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, Woodytom said: Who has turned on him? Just highlighted his failings. On your point thof. .. How did he ridiculously back rdm? He sacked him after 11 games. He also basically told him before the start of the season if he wasn't in the top 6 early on he'd be gone. Why is it that pumping 100m into a football club is seen as a guaranteed positive. The 100m has been spent poorly... and dare I say it'd been a lot less than 100m if he'd wound his neck in with his ridiculous statements about being the best team in Europe within 5 years. He slates the players.... on twitter. I'm all for holding the players responsible but in the right way. So he's appointed experience ppl in the right places? Wow. Hardly rocket science. And they've not even worked out so as it did with Lerner (when he employed failures), the buck stops with Tony. He backed RDM with a lot of cash. I hadn't heard of any statement that he needed to be in the top 6 early on but surely the point was he hadn't managed to get us into the top 18. I don't think he's come out and widely slated players, although he had a dig at Gabby, which seems to have worked, attitude wise at least. Lerner quite definitely didn't appoint experienced people anywhere and so he's had to start building a proper structure from scratch and quickly. Perhaps it isn't rocket science, but the New York lawyer didn't manage to do it. As are many things we view from the outside, there's more to it than meets the eye. You can't be suggesting that Keith Wyness isn't experienced. Most people accepted that even if Bruce wasn't the dream appointment for them, he was a safe pair of hands. Certainly nobody predicted that we'd see this shocking collapse over the last couple of months. I'm not saying he hasn't made mistakes, but show me the man who never made a mistake and I'll show you a man that never did anything. I'm sure he would agree with you that the buck stops with him, but short of pulling his boots on he's done all he can up to this point. It's a very steep learning curve, I'm sure he'll learn quickly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam3773 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Phew, glad all that is cleared up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DaveAV1 said: Lerner quite definitely didn't appoint experienced people anywhere and so he's had to start building a proper structure from scratch and quickly. Perhaps it isn't rocket science, but the New York lawyer didn't manage to do it. Not meaning to go off topic but Randy actually did (at first) appoint people with football experience in Michael Cunnah and then Richard Fitzgerald but they soon left and we ended up with that Paul Faulkner then things started to turn to shit. Edited February 15, 2017 by thabucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 57 minutes ago, thabucks said: 2 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: Lerner quite definitely didn't appoint experienced people anywhere and so he's had to start building a proper structure from scratch and quickly. Perhaps it isn't rocket science, but the New York lawyer didn't manage to do it. 57 minutes ago, thabucks said: Not meaning to go off topic but Randy actually did (at first) appoint people with football experience in Michael Cunnah and then Richard Fitzgerald but they soon left and we ended up with that Paul Faulkner then things started to turn to shit. Randy Lerner quite definitely the worst owner in Aston Villas history Dr Tony Xia quite possibly the best owner in Aston Villas history Time will tell but at the moment i believe in what the Dr is doing and saying. I really believe he is the real deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Sam3773 said: Phew, glad all that is cleared up. I think that's more to do with his pending purchase of Millennium Films (who do the Expendables franchise) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 13 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: He backed RDM with a lot of cash. I hadn't heard of any statement that he needed to be in the top 6 early on but surely the point was he hadn't managed to get us into the top 18. I don't think he's come out and widely slated players, although he had a dig at Gabby, which seems to have worked, attitude wise at least. Lerner quite definitely didn't appoint experienced people anywhere and so he's had to start building a proper structure from scratch and quickly. Perhaps it isn't rocket science, but the New York lawyer didn't manage to do it. As are many things we view from the outside, there's more to it than meets the eye. You can't be suggesting that Keith Wyness isn't experienced. Most people accepted that even if Bruce wasn't the dream appointment for them, he was a safe pair of hands. Certainly nobody predicted that we'd see this shocking collapse over the last couple of months. I'm not saying he hasn't made mistakes, but show me the man who never made a mistake and I'll show you a man that never did anything. I'm sure he would agree with you that the buck stops with him, but short of pulling his boots on he's done all he can up to this point. It's a very steep learning curve, I'm sure he'll learn quickly. Steve Bruce is steadily working on getting us into the top 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 C'mon Tony, lets see this tweet: (-95% +100%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 minute ago, TheStagMan said: C'mon Tony, lets see this tweet: (-95% +100%) Not quite (-100% +100%) Fight like Lions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 56 minutes ago, pacbuddies said: Steve Bruce is steadily working on getting us into the top 18. A bit like if you want to make a small fortune from owning a football club, start with a large fortune! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Grasshopper said: Not quite (-100% +100%) Fight like Lions *ahem* you forgot the # #FightLikeLions my arse... #FightLikeKittens 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 18, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2017 We haven't signed anyone for weeks now! Tony out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Not happy with an article by My Old Man on Twitter. I'm slightly concerned that he can't handle a tiny amount of criticism without biting back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sne Posted February 19, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Not happy with an article by My Old Man on Twitter. I'm slightly concerned that he can't handle a tiny amount of criticism without biting back. This one? Quote Origins Tony Xia’s revolution is stuttering badly. The original plan was simple – take what was seen as a good gamble buying one of English football’s bigger clubs in a cut-price deal, get it promoted within two years with the aid of parachute payment money and with promotion assured, then use the riches of the Premier League television rights money to re-energise the club, expand its fanbase in Chinese and international markets and also help bolster the kudos of the Recon brand. Xia has certainly put the money into his gamble, whether it has been covered by parachute payments and player sales, the intent has very much been there. In fact, you couldn’t ask for more. Villa have spent more in the two transfer windows than several Championship teams have in the entire history of their club’s existence. But when Villa recently played a prime example of such a team, Barnsley, it was clear to see such financial outlay doesn’t necessarily bring dividends on the pitch. Other club’s supporters have referred to Villa has doing a Chelsea and Manchester City in the Championship. Considering Villa’s policy of buying some of the best players in the division, it’s fair comment. If part of rebuilding Villa was rectifying past mistakes like getting rid of the old ‘Bomb Squad’ and ‘Moneyball players’ of the summer of 2015, then the fact the club loaned out in January, £22m worth of the players they had just recruited in the last summer, suggests history is repeating itself. Villa have had the financial backing, they have the players – a collection of Premier League and top-level Championship players – and they have so far this season enlisted the services of two managers who have a proven track record at Championship level. A period of transition is to be expected, but with it should come hope and constructive steps in the right direction. On paper everything looked good. The right steps have been made. So what has gone wrong? Complacency Going into the season, perhaps there was an air of complacency about the club. After the investment, the Villa board expected promotion and so did the players. MOMS has seen DM’s from players from the start of the season where they were so confident of promotion, it was as if it was a given. The bookies and other clubs and their supporters also expected Villa to be a force this season at the top end of the table. Logic dictates that after signing a number of marquee signings in terms of the Championship, like Mile Jedinak, Ross McMormack, Jonathan Kodjia and James Chester, promotion (or the play-offs at least) should have been nailed on. After all, most clubs at this level were lucky to be able to sign one such player, never mind a hatful of them. Yet while Villa got the players, they didn’t seem to get a ‘team’. Marketability After Practicality It’s a badly kept secret that Nigel Pearson was the manager selected by Steve Hollis’s recruitment team, headed up by David Bernstein and Brian Little, if Lerner didn’t sell the club before the summer. Whether it would have worked or not – and you can argue both sides – Xia wanted a sexier option. Roberto Di Matteo’s Champions League winning credentials proved too attractive, but the fact he had next to no experience of building his own team was seemingly overlooked. As MOMS pointed out previously, Di Matteo had constantly inherited ready-made teams, had initial success with them, but never lasted two years at any club. He was certainly not the man for rebuilding a club to the extent of what Villa needed. If Villa needed stability, then Di Matteo showed very little on his managerial CV that he was the man for the job. Xia’s decision to go for the Italian was his first costly mistake owning the club. Jelly Spine There was much talk from the owner, board and manager about building a new spine for the team. After all, it was very much needed. The likes of Tommy Elphick, Mile Jedinak and Ross McCormack were logical considering their previous experience, but Pierluigi Gollini and Aaron Tshibola were also being touted as part of that spin. That was puzzling. At the time of signing, both players were 21 and between them only had 13 games of Championship and above experience in English football. Sign them by all means, but splashing around £4-5m on each of them didn’t exactly represent good value for the immediate needs of the club. As Bruce informed MOMS in a recent meeting, Villa had previously complied several scouting reports on Gollini over the years and they had generally came to the same conclusion – Don’t. Sign. Him. Di Matteo went against this advice and not only that, made him his number one keeper. As MOMS stated when Brad Guzan was sold, with the stakes so high, it was time to get a steady ‘7/10’ experienced keeper in simply to take no chances in the position. It’s not rocket science. If promotion is vitally important, you eliminate as many possible risks as you can. Not add to them. False Messiah? Steve Bruce coming into Villa Park was seen as a logical choice by most and at worst, a necessary evil by fans who couldn’t see past his Bluenose history. Bruce topped a list of 10 candidates collated by Technical Director Steve Round that was presented to the Villa owner. While it’s very unlikely Bruce would have got a chance if Villa were in the Premier League, his record of Championship promotion drowned out the doubts that some fans (including MOMS) had about his suitability of being a long-term Villa boss. His reported rolling contract seemed to suggest the Villa owner wanted to hedge his bets. In terms of ‘horses for courses’, Bruce was the right choice though. Initially, Bruce managed to bring an increased resilience to Villa’s play, the team grinded out results, but the performances were still poor and pointed to the limitations of what the team could do this season. Five out of seven of Bruce’s wins came against teams that were in the bottom six, before the start of play. When true tests of play-off potential came against the likes of Leeds and Norwich, Villa came up short. Bruce though cuts a likeable figure to both the media and some sections of fans, who now preach that stability is the key and change can’t happen over night. Yes, stability always helps, but while the players have demonstrated little on the pitch, Bruce has increasingly shown little evidence of being able to improve matters. There is no cut and dry formulae to turning a team around and the latest call for stability and patience may not necessarily bring the desired results, if the club continues down the same path. Surely Bruce should have made more of an impact by now? When Roy Keane came in as Sunderland boss after the 2005/06 season had seen the club relegated from the Premier League with just 15 points, he turned them into Championship champions the following season. The best example of changing a team’s fortunes this season can be fond in Lincoln City. The team was languishing in non-league limbo for several seasons after relegation from Division Two, but new manager Danny Cowley refocused the whole club in the summer and now they are top of the National League and in the FA Cup 6th Round, having beaten four league clubs along the way. With the right attitude and plan, quick turnarounds can be made. Most clubs don’t have the kind of financial backing that Villa have been privy to, to change their fortunes. Should Villa have done better? Yes. 100%. Patience is fine, but there has to be purpose to it. But can we see this Villa team developing and evolving in each game? Not yet. Villa now have an expensively assembled team that is woefully underperforming and there is little sign that Bruce is impacting anything. Bruce knows all the problems and some, but why is he coming up short in addressing them? Will Bruce be the Villa boss next season? The short answer to this is the Villa manager will have to prove himself in the rest of this season to keep his job. This is not even opinion, but fact. There is too much at stake for Tony Xia. If Villa were to play the same way next season, don’t expect apathetic supporters to gleefully flock to Villa Park. More importantly, Villa wouldn’t be going anywhere and would be left staring into a Championship abyss like Forest, Leeds, Wednesday and Derby have been in recent seasons. Bruce has to demonstrate an improvement with the team and create some forward momentum that can be carried into the summer and onto next season. If this is not apparent in the next few games and weeks then the Villa board would be foolish not to weigh up its options going forward. Yes, the chopping and changing of Villa managers doesn’t help and has even got boring. But the decision to whether Steve Bruce is Villa manager next season isn’t to be made now simply for the sake of stability. We all have to see legitimate evidence in the next few weeks/months to feel comfortable that it actually will be the right decision. Considering the current form of the team, this season is pretty much a right-off, but the silver lining is Bruce does have the luxury of using it to experiment and seriously put his mind to addressing the problems the current team have. Call it an extended pre-season with proper competitive match conditions. It can only be a positive thing, considering the series of inconclusive preseasons Villa have experienced in recent years trying to get their house in order. The Villa boss surely now has the majority of the tools needed for the job of promotion he needs to carry out and, as they say, a good workman never blames his tools. ‘I am the man for it, I’ve got the stomach for it and the fight for it,’ said Bruce in his pre-Newcastle press conference. If he’s true to his word, then there will be nothing to worry about. UTV http://www.myoldmansaid.com/whats-going-wrong-with-aston-villa-and-should-bruce-stay/ Edit: Gotta say I agree with most of it. Edited February 19, 2017 by sne 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) So the parachute payment doesn't even cover half of the wage bill! Edited February 19, 2017 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said: So the parachute payment doesn't even cover half of the wage bill! That's terrifying if true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Regardless of what has been said publicly I'm sure, and has been from the start that the aim was always to go straight back up. With the amount of money pumped in and with Di Matteo being sacked so early into the season there is no doubt for me that this was the aim. Financially it is impossible to keep this going in the Championship, possibly even come next season.. If we don't go up then we are screwed. Pretty certain all Xia's plans hinges on us becoming a PL club again the season after next at the very latest, and if that doesn't happen... Really no idea what will happen then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Tony seems pretty pissed off with the article and feels insulted by it - maybe not the wisest tweet to make in the circumstances - criticism is part of owning a club and he maybe would be wise to not respond by tweeting . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 35 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said: So the parachute payment doesn't even cover half of the wage bill! We are screwed if that is the case. The parachute payments won't last forever. Have to be looking at additional income from somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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