TheFirstMan Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Just now, Rolta said: I didn't say that either. He has been affective bringing in other players and holding up the ball though. Maybe it's not enough, but these short cameos aren't really giving him a chance. if he was better in general then he'd have had more chances, surely - especially last season when Wesley was crap then injured and when Samatta was just as bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Just now, TheFirstMan said: if he was better in general then he'd have had more chances, surely - especially last season when Wesley was crap then injured and when Samatta was just as bad And he was injured for a lot of it, or coming back from one. It was a bit strange how Samatta was played more post lockdown, but it might have had something to do with his injuries. If not, then of course it doesn't look good. I've seen him do ten times as much for the team than Samatta ever did though (apart from two consolation goals that Samatta scored). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Rolta said: And he was injured for a lot of it, or coming back from one. It was a bit strange how Samatta was played more post lockdown, but it might have had something to do with his injuries. If not, then of course it doesn't look good. I've seen him do ten times as much for the team than Samatta ever did though (apart from two consolation goals that Samatta scored). Great doing stuff in ineffective areas and doing nothing in effective areas. His goal scoring is awful but his assist stats are even worse if you can believe that. The only bar you are giving is Samatta who was only in the club slightly longer than David Unsworth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 29, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 29, 2021 We had to play a midfielder up front for the U23's today. I think it would be reckless to let Davis out on loan. We'd be a sending off away from playing 4-6-0 (although the six would be brilliant). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 On 28/01/2021 at 07:34, KenjiOgiwara said: You simply can't judge him rationally on coming into a match we've collapsed with no match fitness. He might not be good enough, but loan him out and see how he does after 20-30 matches. Think the point here is there seems no urge from club whatsoever to loan him out giving the twitter link posted and Davis seems pretty happy with this lot so dosen't seem much of a club plan than just keep him on the bench as he's a "body". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 On 28/01/2021 at 14:30, mottaloo said: Thing is, its all well and good shipping him out on loan to gain confidence and net a few goals but that doesn't really do villa any favours if he has a stormer in a lower division, mainly cos the premier league is a massive leap, with not many strikers being as successful. I like the kid but just sell him to a team more suited to his skills. There can be little room for sentiment if we intend to push on and build on this good start. Yes, we need a squad but a squad of players who are oven ready premier standard and yes, that costs. Him scoring a few and also staying fit to play those games would at least give him more confidence in himself at least. I'm also looking at it from a FFP perspective. I assume one of the problems with that and why we're restricted in some windows is we hardly sell any squad players for anything over 5m compared to many other clubs so we have likes of Lansbury and Taylor just sitting around on decent money until end of contract. I assume there's an agreement with Swansea we'll let Conor go to them for 3-4m if they go up end of the season and Davis value obviously increases if he actually scores a few goals at championship level as no one is paying anything for a striker who never scores currently. Selling 4-5 squad players for 20m in the summer would balance the books much more but currently we could only do that if we let a boderline first team player like Trez or AEG go for 8-10m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danishlad Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I like Davis as a player, I know a lot of people want another back up striker but was thinking who could that be and who do other clubs have. I was looking at other clubs back up strikers. (im not an expert on the other clubs by the way) Brighton- after Maupay they have Conolly and Welbeck Spurs- Bale?? Leicester- Perez Newcastle- Caroll West Ham -do they have one West Brom Robinson Arsenal - Nketier Palace Ayew Everton Tosun Southampton ?? Leeds ?? Wolves Silva Burnley Vydra My point is as a back up striker I think Kienan is ok. I think we fans need to back up our back up striker. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, Danishlad said: I like Davis as a player, I know a lot of people want another back up striker but was thinking who could that be and who do other clubs have. I was looking at other clubs back up strikers. (im not an expert on the other clubs by the way) Brighton- after Maupay they have Conolly and Welbeck Spurs- Bale?? Leicester- Perez Newcastle- Caroll West Ham -do they have one West Brom Robinson Arsenal - Nketier Palace Ayew Everton Tosun Southampton ?? Leeds ?? Wolves Silva Burnley Vydra My point is as a back up striker I think Kienan is ok. I think we fans need to back up our back up striker. A lot of those backup strikers are generally more experienced than the first choice. They're the kind that you bring on to change a game that probably won't wilt under pressure. However, we don't play a system where a traditional backup striker can come on like for like. We have to completely change our shape for Davis to come on. This may not be a bad thing, but when Davis is as ineffective as he is, it is very unlikely to ever improve us from a bad position. I did rate the potential in Davis, but it looks increasingly like he isn't going to fulfil it. Needs minutes if we're to be able to use him off the bench, and he's not getting them here so it seems obvious he needs to go somewhere else. Whether we could get a direct replacement, or even need to, is probably a valid question. Another "can play anywhere across the front 3" kind of player would probably be more useful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 We haven't managed him well. He needed to go out on loan at least 2 seasons ago. His career is going nowhere with us but because we have not brought in anyone else he has stayed as backup. He would be more sellable had he gone out on loan to a Championship club and we could have maybe sold him for a few mil.Now it will probably be the usual let him go when his contract runs down. He is not good enough for the Premier League but I am confident he could have a decent career lower down the leagues. This is exactly what we did with O'Hare as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) No need to send him out on loan as we already know he's not good enough. He's not going to do a Harry Kane and suddenly turn into a world beater. Just wait until the summer and then sell him. Edited February 1, 2021 by villa89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Danishlad said: I like Davis as a player, I know a lot of people want another back up striker but was thinking who could that be and who do other clubs have. I was looking at other clubs back up strikers. (im not an expert on the other clubs by the way) Brighton- after Maupay they have Conolly and Welbeck Spurs- Bale?? Leicester- Perez Newcastle- Caroll West Ham -do they have one West Brom Robinson Arsenal - Nketier Palace Ayew Everton Tosun Southampton ?? Leeds ?? Wolves Silva Burnley Vydra My point is as a back up striker I think Kienan is ok. I think we fans need to back up our back up striker. Why are you comparing us to some of those teams, you are looking backwards at lower teams teams around us including us Villa - Watkins.....Wes (injured), Davis and possibly Traore Arsenal -Lacazette, Aubameyang, Nkeitah Spurs - Kane, Son, Vinicius, Bale Leicester - Vardy, iheanacho, Perez Everton - Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison, Tosun, even Rodriguez can play there if we are putting Traore in ours I think we are weak and most teams have two strong strikers and then you were looking for back up strikers where you were comparing us with one striker with back up strikers. Looking at the list above Davis is very weak in comparison. Plus I care not one dot about other teams, I worry about Villa only having one option upfront. Davis is not an ok back up, maybe as third or fourth striker but not second. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 In an ideal world we would have a signed a short term journey man , Vydra comes to mind and send him out on loan but it doesnt look like it is going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I was shocked in the summer when he was given a new contract, one of the most baffling decisions we've made since the new owners came in. League 1 player at best, should not be the first option for a Premier League side, absolutely clear to see. We've been really lucky that Watkins has played every minute of every game, looks like we are going to risk it until the summer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 46 minutes ago, Junxs said: I was shocked in the summer when he was given a new contract, one of the most baffling decisions we've made since the new owners came in. League 1 player at best, should not be the first option for a Premier League side, absolutely clear to see. We've been really lucky that Watkins has played every minute of every game, looks like we are going to risk it until the summer. I agree, I thought it might be to get a fee in the future and just cover until they could determine Wes' condition and length out but I still expected another striker in. I assume he'll be shipped out in the summer, it seems obvious Smith doesnt rate him because he gets no time. We'll also have Wes back and then whatever the management want to do but if we want to go to the next level (or even staying at the current level) then we need better back up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, nick76 said: Why are you comparing us to some of those teams, you are looking backwards at lower teams teams around us including us Villa - Watkins.....Wes (injured), Davis and possibly Traore Arsenal -Lacazette, Aubameyang, Nkeitah Spurs - Kane, Son, Vinicius, Bale Leicester - Vardy, iheanacho, Perez Everton - Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison, Tosun, even Rodriguez can play there if we are putting Traore in ours I think we are weak and most teams have two strong strikers and then you were looking for back up strikers where you were comparing us with one striker with back up strikers. Looking at the list above Davis is very weak in comparison. Plus I care not one dot about other teams, I worry about Villa only having one option upfront. Davis is not an ok back up, maybe as third or fourth striker but not second. The thing for me is this......I would love Keinan to come good, I will get that out of the way first. Is it likey, No......Keinan is not back up he is a filler and that is trying hard not to be unfair to him, he holds the ball up for more nimble players to score.......he needs to go out and establish himself, one way or the other....the day of reckoning has to come. I think maybe someone like Ivan Toney, when he was at Peterborough, would have been a better move, its too late now, Brentford would want Watkins money for him.....Adam Armstrong is another.... to take a look at. If a player/striker, does not score goals, their is a fundamental flaw in their game.....we could be waiting forever.....conversely, if they do score goals, they are at least doing somethings right. I do worry if Ollie gets a long termer (injury)....the only thing I can think of is, they must be confident, Wes will come back to full fitness......so maybe its just that gap between now and wes's full fitness, that is the worry zone. Edited February 1, 2021 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I've just thought of an interesting point, Davis will look a better player starting games than he does when coming off the bench. Coming off the bench comes with a different type of pressure and expectation, as striker if you're coming off the bench it's usually because your team is in trouble and you're expected to change the game, or even win the game, and with a limited amont of time to do so, I don't think Davis necessarily suits that super sub type role, but starting games I think is a different story. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 hours ago, Danishlad said: I like Davis as a player, I know a lot of people want another back up striker but was thinking who could that be and who do other clubs have. I was looking at other clubs back up strikers. (im not an expert on the other clubs by the way) Brighton- after Maupay they have Conolly and Welbeck Spurs- Bale?? Leicester- Perez Newcastle- Caroll West Ham -do they have one West Brom Robinson Arsenal - Nketier Palace Ayew Everton Tosun Southampton ?? Leeds ?? Wolves Silva Burnley Vydra My point is as a back up striker I think Kienan is ok. I think we fans need to back up our back up striker. Brighton- correct. They also still had Florin Andone who's been injured similar length to Wes and scored a few in La Liga. Spurs- Carlos Vincius and Lucas Moura has also played upfront in his time there although he's not that great. Leicester- Iheanacho. Newcastle- Dwight Gayle Arsenal- First choice when everyone is fit will be Auba with Odegaard in number 10 and Smith Rowe and Saka out wide so Lacazette to the bench in that case Palace. Let's say Mateta starts with Zaha and Eze either side. Benteke and Batsuyai on the bench. Everton- lack depth like us given they want to move Tosun on. Southampton- Che Adams and Shane Long both on bench v us. Burnley- When everyone is fit Jay Rodriguez first reserve. In terms of general numbers we are well short compared to many prem clubs. As said before I'd rather not just shift Traore to CF given he's starting to get going where he's playing now and one of our other strikers on books hasn't played for 13 months now. Dosen't mean the options I've listed are amazing as most of them aren't but these clubs at least have credible options to come in if their main striker gets injured, that's still my main worry although perhaps Ollie will be the bionic man for us. I can remember Gabby barely missing a league game for about three seasons although not being rested much certainly caught up with him later on in his career. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 We will usually have two of Trezeguet, El Ghazi, and Traore on the bench, they're probably just as likely to come off the bench and get us a goal as most of those strikers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, useless said: I've just thought of an interesting point, Davis will look a better player starting games than he does when coming off the bench. Coming off the bench comes with a different type of pressure and expectation, as striker if you're coming off the bench it's usually because your team is in trouble and you're expected to change the game, or even win the game, and with a limited amont of time to do so, I don't think Davis necessarily suits that super sub type role, but starting games I think is a different story. I think he can at least replicate Ollie's hold up play to a decent agree, even if he doesn't naturally get into the same scoring positions. It's not ideal but we probably don't have enough spare cash at the moment plus the right player isn't usually available in January, even on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: I think he can at least replicate Ollie's hold up play to a decent agree, even if he doesn't naturally get into the same scoring positions. It's not ideal but we probably don't have enough spare cash at the moment plus the right player isn't usually available in January, even on loan. He doesn't have the intelligence of movement Ollie has....Keinan partly suffers for not being ahead of the play in his thinking, he is a reactionary player....another reason why he gets clattered, you have to move or be on the move. The top players move in to chances, you cannot just statically wait for them every time.....Keinan sadly, is too slow to react, and then has to snatch at things, its a shame. Look at Barkleys goal, on the move, not static......David Platt was the same always running in to cross balls, they couldn't close him down...too mobile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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