Big_John_10 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Okay, well you seem more eager to cling on to this argument about Lerner so I will leave it with you for you to hold on to nice and tight. . Thanks. I'll cling onto the part about facts when all you did was post a wild guess with little logical thinking behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 If your observation is that we made some very poor signing I 100% agree. The observation I was trying to make is that far too many players were allowed to leave for very little or no return on the initial investment. 13 Players some of whom cost us big money all walked or will walk out of our club with out any transfer fees due. Thats just terrible business. I cannot think of any other club in the top tier of football who would allow that to happen. £61 Million Gone. Had the club clawed back as little as 30% of that it would have paid Darren Bents Transfer Fee............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 The observation I was trying to make is that far too many players were allowed to leave for very little or no return on the initial investment. 13 Players some of whom cost us big money all walked or will walk out of our club with out any transfer fees due. Thats just terrible business. I cannot think of any other club in the top tier of football who would allow that to happen. £61 Million Gone. Had the club clawed back as little as 30% of that it would have paid Darren Bents Transfer Fee............ Exactly - Lerner definitely learnt the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Oh at least we're getting close to admitting he's a **** up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 20, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 20, 2012 The observation I was trying to make is that far too many players were allowed to leave for very little or no return on the initial investment. 13 Players some of whom cost us big money all walked or will walk out of our club with out any transfer fees due. Thats just terrible business. I cannot think of any other club in the top tier of football who would allow that to happen. £61 Million Gone. Had the club clawed back as little as 30% of that it would have paid Darren Bents Transfer Fee............ As I alluded to in the Lambert thread, this is almost certainly one of the reasons the transfer policy has changed the way it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houllierout Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Im glad this is starting to gather some much needed momentum again. Lerner is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 The observation I was trying to make is that far too many players were allowed to leave for very little or no return on the initial investment. 13 Players some of whom cost us big money all walked or will walk out of our club with out any transfer fees due. Thats just terrible business. I cannot think of any other club in the top tier of football who would allow that to happen. £61 Million Gone. Had the club clawed back as little as 30% of that it would have paid Darren Bents Transfer Fee............ With the exception of Arsenal and Utd (purely because of CR7), all of the top clubs have recouped a fraction of what they've splashed out on players. Liverpool are ready to write off the £20m they spent on Downing. When you take into account what we got for Milner/Barry/Young/Downing we're no worse than the other top clubs. Lerner knew what he was getting into and knew what he was gambling with. Spurs do alright mind you - exception rather than the rule though IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 20, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 20, 2012 This is a genuine question. What do the people who are anti Lerner want Lerner to do? Sell the club? (and why? Just because we might get someone wih even more money?) Invest more money? Again these aren't loaded questions, I'm genuinely interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Doug recommended houllier, or atleast put his name forward iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Doug recommended houllier, or atleast put his name forward iirc. Where did you hear that? From one of Doug's trademark "I'm Brilliant" interviews? Lerner bought a club and invested alot of his own money in it to live the dream of having a successfull club. MON wasted the vast majority of that money and then two disasterous mangerial appointments followed costing more money and sending the club tumbling down to the relegation fight. Now Lerner has realised that football's a complete money pit and he's trying to find a way to have a successfull club that spends within its means as his pockets aren't bottomless. I fail to see why anyone can be hostile towards him for that. Fair enough if you blame him for Houiller and McLeish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Where did you hear that? From one of Doug's trademark "I'm Brilliant" interviews? Lerner bought a club and invested alot of his own money in it to live the dream of having a successfull club. MON wasted the vast majority of that money and then two disasterous mangerial appointments followed costing more money and sending the club tumbling down to the relegation fight. Now Lerner has realised that football's a complete money pit and he's trying to find a way to have a successfull club that spends within its means as his pockets aren't bottomless. I fail to see why anyone can be hostile towards him for that. Fair enough if you blame him for Houiller and McLeish. Fully agree with this. He deserves the full blame for Mcleish. But he has pumped a hell of a lot of money into the club, it just didn't work out like it was supossed to. A few fans just remind me of a spoilit kid with their hand out saying more more more - more money. If he kept spending how he did at first we'd be long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 He spent without a long term plan and lost complete financial control and then instead of curing costs slowly it came to a full stop. He then hired 2 shocking managers while wasting money on compensation to plenty of people and Birmingham City football club. In 2 years we went from best points total in a 38 game prem season to lowest points total in a 38 game prem season. And this isn't a problem? No one seems bothered by dropping more than any other club in the league. We also now sit in 18th place with the relegation battle looking very much on and people are surprised some aren't impressed with how he's run the club. I love how all of it is just shrugged off as 'oh well he tried' If a player constantly under performs and makes terrible decisions we want him out the team. If a manager constantly under performs and makes terrible decisions we want him gone. Randy Lerner though makes the worst decisions which cost us more dearly than anything any player or manager has done and yet he is still fully supported. Why? Why are fans of Aston Villa so happy to see their club performing at such a low level? What is it about Lerner that's made people lower expectations to such a level where some will blindly defend this man? The defence of him is absolutely laughable. Look at his record with the browns, look at the reaction of their fans now he's gone. Any of them upset? Bothered? Dissapointed? Speaks volumes. Any other business if an owner purchased a company, spent money and years later had them in a worse position than when he took over he'd be considered a failure. Most other teams he'd be considered a failure. I just don't know what Lerner has done to convince some fans he's actually been good for this club. Can anyone tell me what will be differen this Saturday than when Doug was in charge? How has Lerner made supporting or going to villa park better for you than when Doug was in charge? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Oh at least we're getting close to admitting he's a **** up now. I'm going to give him one last window to redeem himself. £30-40m should build a few bridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 With the exception of Arsenal and Utd (purely because of CR7), all of the top clubs have recouped a fraction of what they've splashed out on players. Liverpool are ready to write off the £20m they spent on Downing. When you take into account what we got for Milner/Barry/Young/Downing we're no worse than the other top clubs. Lerner knew what he was getting into and knew what he was gambling with. Spurs do alright mind you - exception rather than the rule though IMHO. So apart from Arsenal, Spurs and Man U, all of the top clubs spend far more than they make on players. That doesn't really leave many top clubs does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted November 20, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 20, 2012 This is a genuine question. What do the people who are anti Lerner want Lerner to do? Sell the club? (and why? Just because we might get someone wih even more money?) Invest more money? Again these aren't loaded questions, I'm genuinely interested. Good questions, I'd like to know answers to these too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 He's gone from one extreme to another. I'd like him to settle somewhere in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I'd like some indication he's not just happy being a mediocre nothing club. I'd like consistent spending at a sensible level in line with a long term plan. I was never happy being a nothing club under Doug so I'm certainly not going to be happy being a nothing club under Lerner. Not sure why others are now. These are things he is capable of doing and he certainly has a chance to change the way he's run the club so far. He's been nothing short of abysmal so far but with lambert he has a chance to redeem himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I have zero doubts he will dip into his pocket in January again. It wouldnt surprise me if we ended up spending close to 40 million this season all in. Lets just hope Lambert spends wisely (and I think he has so far but obviously the results say otherwise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Not sure if anybody cares but.... I personally do not have one single thing against Lerner. For the past 2 seasons I have just attacked the managers for not doing their jobs properly, rather than criticising Lerner for the appointments. Actually, it was the managers and the players that I would pounce on. I joined this forum around Xmas time when we had Houllier as manager, mainly so I could try to defend him as others were attacking him at 12 weeks into the job, but then I quickly turned as frustration got the better of me. Against McLeish, I hated everything that he tried to do to the team, it really was one of the most terrible seasons I have experienced under him. But even then, I still never wanted Lerner out. I will always remember Lerners face when Bolton scored their second goal against us last season, he was leaning against the wall of the tunnel and his exp<b></b>ression told a thousand words. There is something about him, something which makes me think that actually, all he wants is for us to do well, he is desperate for success, but not so desperate in that he needs it right this very second... Instead he wants to see us grow, properly, into something massive, something which fans all over will take note and say "look what they have managed to achieve under that guy"... Is it really wrong of him to want to get the wages in order? I personally bloody love it when I see people like Heskey leave who are earning about £50k a week for being dog shit. I think lerner is happy as well! There are still a couple more to go, an when that day comes then it really will be a clean slate, because everyone else looks as though they are willing to do some work for us. He has spent money too, wow, how much this summer for some young up and coming players with a couple from europe? This is a man who people claim doesn't give a flying duck about us. He has now sold his fathers sporting franchise for a few hundred million quid, and I honestly think some of that money will be coming our way. Lerner is gonna be great for us, I really do believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I'd like some indication he's not just happy being a mediocre nothing club. I'd like consistent spending at a sensible level in line with a long term plan. I was never happy being a nothing club under Doug so I'm certainly not going to be happy being a nothing club under Lerner. Not sure why others are now. These are things he is capable of doing and he certainly has a chance to change the way he's run the club so far. He's been nothing short of abysmal so far but with lambert he has a chance to redeem himself. We have been a mediocre "nothing" club since 1982 and it doesn't look like changing anytime soon, so it looks as if your unhappiness will continue for a quite a while yet, if that's how you really feel . As for labeling Lerner as abysmal ? Are you serious ? He has made mistakes for certain and is not at all blameless but abysmal ? have a word . He tried chucking money at us and for various reasons it never came off . He is currently trying a different approach which may be painful at first but has every chance of being worth it in the long run . Everton and most recently WBA have shown that you can get up the table without spending tonnes of money . (2 teams who would have loved to have been able to have spent what we have spent in recent years by the way) The immediate future is going to be hard for us but hopefully it will bear fruit later down the line . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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