Risso Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 To be fair I don't think Houllier was a bad choice at the time, and him being French is irrelevant. McLeish was indeed a strange though and the only rationale I can think of for that was that Randy needed somebody to drive down the wage bill who could then be got rid of. Houllier was an appalling choice. Mainly because when O'Neill walked, Lerner had the opportunity to show everybody that he still meant business, but instead he took the quick and easy option by choosing a bloke in semi-retirement with the French FA, who had left the English game years before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Houllier was an appalling choice. Mainly because when O'Neill walked, Lerner had the opportunity to show everybody that he still meant business, but instead he took the quick and easy option by choosing a bloke in semi-retirement with the French FA, who had left the English game years before. Many people (including myself) thought it was a good appointment and although it didn't work out you could see the rationale behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I was not mocking him for being french mantis, just stating his nationality. I couldn't give a toss if he was Mexican he was still a shocking appointment. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 It's easy to say that with hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Not hindsight he was just not the right man pre-appointment despite what the conclusion was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 There is clear evidence of this - look at our last 2 appointments before Lambert! Who the **** in there right mind would pick a dithering french man with health issues? Who the **** in there right mind would pick a manager who just got your most hated rivals relegated to be our new manager? That does not strike me as the actions of a chairman who 'Loves this club'!! Paul Faulkner CEO is that correct? If this guy is not here for negociations, contracts and everything else a CEO is employed to do then what the **** does he actually do in the role and what is he doing at Villa Park? And no Big John I am not "shifting" any blame anywhere. Just stating fact. . Hahaha What facts are you stating there? When you ask who in their right mind would appoint houllier and Mcleish you only have to look at our owner. Shifting the blame to Faulkner is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 It was Houllier's health that was the big problem, things were picking up at the end of that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 It was Houllier's health that was the big problem, things were picking up at the end of that season. Your right things were picking up. It coincided with the useless, over the hill ,disrespectful pratt being ill. In the 10 games he wasn't at the club - 5 under KMac and 5 under GMac we took 15 points. In the 28 games he was in charge we took just 33 points whilst serving up some of the most gutless tripe I have had the misfortune to witness in my 30 years following us. Houlliers fate was sealed after the Wolves home game and he was always off at the end of that season much like a decison was made on McLeish after the Bolton game last season. I still can't believe he took the best part of 5 mill out of this club for 6 months work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Your right things were picking up. It coincided with the useless, over the hill ,disrespectful pratt being ill. In the 10 games he wasn't at the club - 5 under KMac and 5 under GMac we took 15 points. In the 28 games he was in charge we took just 33 points whilst serving up some of the most gutless tripe I have had the misfortune to witness in my 30 years following us. Houlliers fate was sealed after the Wolves home game and he was always off at the end of that season much like a decison was made on McLeish after the Bolton game last season. I still can't believe he took the best part of 5 mill out of this club for 6 months work. How do you know that? Are you ITK? Fact is after the dreadful Wolves game we were improving and we were actually alright overall once Bent came. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted November 20, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 20, 2012 There is clear evidence of this - look at our last 2 appointments before Lambert! Who the **** in there right mind would pick a dithering french man with health issues? Who the **** in there right mind would pick a manager who just got your most hated rivals relegated to be our new manager? That does not strike me as the actions of a chairman who 'Loves this club'!! Paul Faulkner CEO is that correct? If this guy is not here for negociations, contracts and everything else a CEO is employed to do then what the **** does he actually do in the role and what is he doing at Villa Park? Okay i'm failing to see the clear evidence here other than you guessing? At the end of the day Randy is the chairman of the football club. He has the final say on any decisions being made. When they appointed Houllier I remember the board claiming they had taken advice from many different people within football. So to just blame it all on Faulkner is ridiculous 'cos there is no evidence, there's nothing to even suggest that Faulkner was even involved in the decision making (chances are he was though). Who would pick a manager from a direct rival? Maybe an American owner who really doesn't understand the rivalry? As for Faulkner being the CEO - i'm sure he does a shitload of work on the commercial side of things at Villa Park. Makes more sense for Randy to make the big decisions such as managerial appointments. The buck stops with Randy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 We will agree to disagree on the Randy Faulkner issue but my view is Randy has been ill advised by him and convinced it's the right thing for the club. Trusting his close aide he makes the decision to appoint. Blind Leading the Blind! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaRob Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I will add my voice to the Houllier was not a bad appointment call. At the time I remember we wanted a move away from one style of play to another and H was as good a choice for that as anyone else. We were looking forward to free flowing football with skilled foreign players. This didn't happen overnight then: It was Houllier's health that was the big problem, things were picking up at the end of that season. McLeish was a disaster waiting to happen but again I think he was asked to catch a ball with his hands behind his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 The Houllier appointment was right up there in terms of **** clueless appointments. Terrible manager , aloof pompous and out of touch and he scorched Our club for £5m rocket polisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Carew Heskey Friedel NRC Cuellar Melberg Sorenson Beye Bouma Harewood Approximate Cost £43 million All left without a single penny coming in Warnock Dunne Makoun Approximate Cost £18 million All look likely to follow Sidwell Shorey Collins L. Young C. Davies Approximate Cost £26 million All left for far smaller fees than was paid for them. I reckon that we have lost (or will have lost) £80 million on this lot and the list is by no means exhaustive. Now somebody tell me again that our Chairman is a shrewd businessman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 We will agree to disagree on the Randy Faulkner issue but my view is Randy has been ill advised by him and convinced it's the right thing for the club. Trusting his close aide he makes the decision to appoint. Blind Leading the Blind! . I doubt very much you get elected to be on the FA Council is you are as clueless as you make out - from what I hear he is very good at what he does (faulkner), and has been instrumental in making sure we dont do another leeds. In my own opinion - and I have nothing to back this up with, but I think the two managerial appointments after MON were simply done because they were the best of a bad bunch, and knew that the big spending days were over for a while. I dont think any of us truly know how bad the spending and wages had got - not many managers would come knowing that they had to clean that up and work with what we had - a squad on the decline and no money to fix it. I think we are very much out the woods now - and this is season 1 of the new project. I dont like the position we are in, but I've seen enough to know we are building something positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Carew Heskey Friedel NRC Cuellar Melberg Sorenson Beye Bouma Harewood Approximate Cost £43 million All left without a single penny coming in Warnock Dunne Makoun Approximate Cost £18 million All look likely to follow Sidwell Shorey Collins L. Young C. Davies Approximate Cost £26 million All left for far smaller fees than was paid for them. I reckon that we have lost (or will have lost) £80 million on this lot and the list is by no means exhaustive. Now somebody tell me again that our Chairman is a shrewd businessman. The mistake he made was giving financial control to a so called shrewd and future manager of man united. Sadly it didn't work out - but it should have. We gave Oneil a crack at the big time and he **** it up. He couldn't get us over THAT top 4 line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 We will agree to disagree on the Randy Faulkner issue but my view is Randy has been ill advised by him and convinced it's the right thing for the club. Trusting his close aide he makes the decision to appoint. Blind Leading the Blind! . So you weren't stating facts then? And what sort of an idiot would only listen to a man who has no background in football? Your attempt to shift the blame from Lerner is actually laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Okay, well you seem more eager to cling on to this argument about Lerner so I will leave it with you for you to hold on to nice and tight. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Even if some of the blame is pushed on to Faulkner, which given his position in the club seems reasonable, it should be remembered that Lerner is the man who appointed him. It seems his last three appointments, pre Lambert, into the most important non playing roles in the club have all been really poor. I think Lambert is a good manager but unless he is given substantial funds to spend and allowed to pay the wages that proven quality players will want then I can see us remaining in deep trouble for the whole of this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Carew Heskey Friedel NRC Cuellar Melberg Sorenson Beye Bouma Harewood Approximate Cost £43 million All left without a single penny coming in Warnock Dunne Makoun Approximate Cost £18 million All look likely to follow Sidwell Shorey Collins L. Young C. Davies Approximate Cost £26 million All left for far smaller fees than was paid for them. I reckon that we have lost (or will have lost) £80 million on this lot and the list is by no means exhaustive. Now somebody tell me again that our Chairman is a shrewd businessman. If your observation is that we made some very poor signing I 100% agree. The mistake RL made was trusting his managers too much, or more particularly trusting MON too much who very often overpaid for and then over remunerated average players. But that has to be set against the background of him coming to the Premier League with no previous experience. Interestingly also it appears that MON left as soon as RL tried to control what he did with transfers and players. Does that make him a good or a bad businessman? Oh and just to set the record a little straighter your analysis leaves out Milner, A Young and Downing who yielded a profit of some £30m. You can also add £5.5m for Cahill, £2.5m for Ridgewell and £3.5m for Luke Moore all of whom cost nothing so in reality the 'losses' are much smaller. That's not exhaustive either. I'm certainly not saying RL is a superb owner but neither is he the devil incarnate that some thing he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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