The Randy Lerner thread

[Big_John_10]

So you don't think buying the club and spending millions over 6 years to make it worse isn't abysmal? Like I said low expectations.

Were you happy under Doug? Did you have any problem with him as an owner? Considering what you're happy to accept now you must have been over the moon during the premiership years under Doug.

Not sure if anybody cares but....

I personally do not have one single thing against Lerner. For the past 2 seasons I have just attacked the managers for not doing their jobs properly, rather than criticising Lerner for the appointments. Actually, it was the managers and the players that I would pounce on.

I joined this forum around Xmas time when we had Houllier as manager, mainly so I could try to defend him as others were attacking him at 12 weeks into the job, but then I quickly turned as frustration got the better of me.

Against McLeish, I hated everything that he tried to do to the team, it really was one of the most terrible seasons I have experienced under him. But even then, I still never wanted Lerner out. I will always remember Lerners face when Bolton scored their second goal against us last season, he was leaning against the wall of the tunnel and his exp<b></b>ression told a thousand words.

There is something about him, something which makes me think that actually, all he wants is for us to do well, he is desperate for success, but not so desperate in that he needs it right this very second... Instead he wants to see us grow, properly, into something massive, something which fans all over will take note and say "look what they have managed to achieve under that guy"...

Is it really wrong of him to want to get the wages in order? I personally bloody love it when I see people like Heskey leave who are earning about £50k a week for being dog shit. I think lerner is happy as well! There are still a couple more to go, an when that day comes then it really will be a clean slate, because everyone else looks as though they are willing to do some work for us.

He has spent money too, wow, how much this summer for some young up and coming players with a couple from europe? This is a man who people claim doesn't give a flying duck about us. He has now sold his fathers sporting franchise for a few hundred million quid, and I honestly think some of that money will be coming out way.

Lerner is gonna be great for us, I really do believe that.

Pathetic acceptance of utter shit just because its Randy Lerner.

[Brumerican]

Were you unhappy during 3 successive top 6 finishes and a cup final ?

I have never been unhappy as a Villa fan and have seen us in far worse shape than we currently are . Unfortunately there are a few teams in England who have more money , fans and success than we do but on the other side of the coin there are many , many more teams who have far less than we do . I do not expect anything as I consider myself a realist . I have seen us beat far better teams than us and lose against teams much worse than us, and it will always be that way . The only thing I "expect" from football is the unexpected, and that is enough for me . I'm not one for throwing the toys out of the pram when things don't go our way or demanding everything immediately like a petulant baby . I enjoy the highs and suffer the lows but am wise enough to accept the things that I cannot change .

Success would be nice for sure but if it doesn't materialize then there are million other things outside of football to find contentment in .

[Tayls]

Were you not happy with the 3 6th placed finishes under O'Neil? If you say no your a liar. Who was in charge during those 3 years? Who spend the money to bring in Young, Milner and Downing?

It wasn't until there was a disagreement presumably to do with wages that people started to turn. He made a mistake with letting MON spend big on wages and he is determined to not have that happen again. With the way players are at the moment, thank god because the ones that think they have made it are a bunch of tossers and don't deserve rediculous money. I like our approach to signing young hungry players.

[Foxy1]

Were you unhappy during 3 successive top 6 finishes and a cup final ?

I have never been unhappy as a Villa fan and have seen us in far worse shape than we currently are . Unfortunately there are a few teams in England who have more money , fans and success than we do but on the other side of the coin there are many , many more teams who have far less than we do . I do not expect anything as I consider myself a realist . I have seen us beat far better teams than us and lose against teams much worse than us, and it will always be that way . The only thing I "expect" from football is the unexpected, and that is enough for me . I'm not one for throwing the toys out of the pram when things don't go our way or demanding everything immediately like a petulant baby . I enjoy the highs and suffer the lows but am wise enough to accept the things that I cannot change .

Success would be nice for sure but if it doesn't materialize then there are million other things outside of football to find contentment in .

Good post and pretty much mirrors my own thoughts. However it has been a miserable and disheartening few years after the highs experienced under MON.

I like what Lambert is doing, I would even go as far as saying relegation would not stop me supporting him as I believe we will be in good shape in 5 years time (i.e. top half Prem, competing for European places) under his ongoing leadership.

[Foxy1]

To add, those who are most unhappy as fans are probably the same that hate the bloke who lives across the road who has a better car and a prettier wife.

[Big_John_10]

Were you not happy with the 3 6th placed finishes under O'Neil? If you say no your a liar. Who was in charge during those 3 years? Who spend the money to bring in Young, Milner and Downing?

It wasn't until there was a disagreement presumably to do with wages that people started to turn. He made a mistake with letting MON spend big on wages and he is determined to not have that happen again. With the way players are at the moment, thank god because the ones that think they have made it are a bunch of tossers and don't deserve rediculous money. I like our approach to signing young hungry players.

Loved those 6th place finishes and at the time was a massive fan of Lerner. That's mainly because it wasn't obvious during that time how badly the club was being run and how little thought had gone into a long term plan.

Now that's become clear I think it would be pretty stupid to not change my opinion of him when quite clearly he was running the club badly. The last two seasons have then just added to how useless I believe he is with two incredibly poor managerial appointments.

[Big_John_10]

Were you unhappy during 3 successive top 6 finishes and a cup final ?

I have never been unhappy as a Villa fan and have seen us in far worse shape than we currently are . Unfortunately there are a few teams in England who have more money , fans and success than we do but on the other side of the coin there are many , many more teams who have far less than we do . I do not expect anything as I consider myself a realist . I have seen us beat far better teams than us and lose against teams much worse than us, and it will always be that way . The only thing I "expect" from football is the unexpected, and that is enough for me . I'm not one for throwing the toys out of the pram when things don't go our way or demanding everything immediately like a petulant baby . I enjoy the highs and suffer the lows but am wise enough to accept the things that I cannot change .

Success would be nice for sure but if it doesn't materialize then there are million other things outside of football to find contentment in .

So it sounds like you were perfectly happy with Doug as the owner.

[Big_John_10]

To add, those who are most unhappy as fans are probably the same that hate the bloke who lives across the road who has a better car and a prettier wife.

We don't like Lerner because we're jealous?

I'll add that to the list of pathetic defending of him.

[Brumerican]

We don't like Lerner because we're jealous?

I'll add that to the list of pathetic defending of him.

He didn't mention fans who didn't like Lerner. He mentioned fans who are unhappy . They are not one and the same thing you know, and there are other adjectives other than pathetic too. Online thesaurus' are free.

Once again you have twisted someones post to try and score a point . It's beyond tedious and so transparent it's untrue.

[Big_John_10]

Pathetic just covers so much of it for me though.

Such as your defence of the post I quoted above.

Can't actually put forward a defence of the club sitting in 18th so makes some ridiculous comment about the type of people who are unhappy.

Pathetic.

[Brumerican]

You really aren't the sharpest tool in the box are you ? I am not defending the club or our position . i am just pointing out that you are seeing things in other peoples posts that just aren't there . (Just like you just did with my last post funnily enough )

Foxy made an offhand comment that the fans who are unhappy are possibly the sort of people who suffer from envy issues . He didn't say it about fans who don't like Lerner did he ? You can still like Lerner yet be an unhappy Villa fan . You are the one who put words into his/her mouth weren't you ? This is something you continue to do yet you have the audacity to throw the word pathetic around ? You have so little self awareness it is embarrassing . It's actually cringeworthy how unintelligent, repetitive and short sighted you can be at times.

How the hell can you call another villa fan "pathetic" for simply being positive about Aston Villa ? , especially when there are very few positives to cling to at the moment . Nobody is overly happy with our current position but it really isn't the end of the world and it's a far cry from the bleak picture you constantly portray .

You are pissed off , we get it but you really don't need to persist with the twisting of other peoples posts to try and prove some point like some 14 year old spurned girl who refuses to lose an argument or not get the last word in . Have a day off man , if not for everybody else's sake then your own . Your anger will eat you up and consume you and your life will be a joyless mess.

[Big_John_10]

I'm a very happy person but thanks for caring. My dislike for Lerner plays no part in how I feel during the day. Villa losing gets me down but moaning about Lerner on the Internet does little to my emotional state.

Thanks for all the insults thrown in the last post. Like I said, you can't put across any decent points so have to resort to that level of post. It's pretty pathetic.

Keep clinging on to that positivity though.

I assume you insulted and complained about anyone who wasn't happy with Doug, true? Did you complain when all those thousands held up £ signs and asked them why they couldn't just be positive?

I have a feeling I already know the answer.

[Brumerican]

Pretty much as expected . You moan about insults yet constantly label everything or everyone as pathetic. The hypocrisy is astounding and as I said it shows a staggering lack of self awareness.

You say your dislike for Lerner has no bearing on your general emotions but it must do at some level . You cannot post the same tedious , negative posts without it affecting you in the slightest . Wallowing in misery will perpetuate the misery whether you say so or not.

As for clinging to positivity I would have to express perplexion as I am not overly positive about villa at all . If anything I am numb to it and have already mentioned that my joy from football is gained from the "not knowing" how things will pan out . I am neutral yet live in hope .

Then you go and completely validate everything I have said about you by saying the following

I assume you insulted and complained about anyone who wasn't happy with Doug, true? Did you complain when all those thousands held up £ signs and asked them why they couldn't just be positive?

You start off by admitting it's an assumption but then proceed to argue a point that isn't there, as if it were somehow a fact . You are the queen of the strawman argument .

I have already stated that I don't complain about Villa's shortcomings . It's not that I am being positive about it , it's that I realise I can not alter the situation .

I didn't care how well or badly Ellis ran the club and I do not care how brilliant or abysmal Lerner is . I love the club and will support them regardless of how bad things get . For me being a Villa fan is just a day out watching a game I love at a ground I love . (I prefer away games mind you as the fans are more vocal and I enjoy being in the minority tribe in a hostile environment . )

I am sorry I don't fall into a pigeonhole such as Pro Lerner or anti whatever but I just don't . At the end of the day it is 22 miillionaires kicking a ball around for entertainment purposes and I just can't get as emotionally involved or attatched as I did when I was a kid. Life is too short to spend all day crying on the internet about what is essentially a business that abuses my arbitrary loyalty to milk money out of me and can potentially offer me nothing in return for it . This is why I choose to stay happy about being a Villa fan regardless of how shit they may be or how badly they are being run . I love the drama of live sport and the buzz of going to Villa Park and thinking that today might be our day . If it turns out that today will never be our day then so be it . I can't control that and there are thousands of other sports teams who's day it will never be .

If you want to get pissed off over things you cannot change then that is your perogative, but you really shouldn't try and drag everyone else down with you and you really shouldn't mis-represent everyones opinions to try and justify your own .

You say I can't make a decent point but I think I have been as clear and articulate as I can . I have only responded to what you have written and have tried not to make any assumptions or twist your words . Something you could really start trying to do yourself .

If you want to

[TRO]

I'm just one of those that think that we wasn't doing quite as well during 6-6-6 as we thought we was. 3wins in 11 ( 2007-2008) 2 wins in 13 ( 2008-2009) 3 wins in 12 ( 2009-2010) would suggest to me that we wasn't quite as in control as we thought we was. yes the final position was ok but we were never in any kind of control....in short it was brittle.... not much has changed in that respect, we could easily go on a good run.

we spent over 130 million on players who found ball control troublesome and luckily recovered 54 million on 3 players that were just about the only equitable ones that we could sell.

We have gradually got worse.... but that does not make those 3 years faultless far from it.

We have different kinds of problems right now, but I'm hoping that Lerner & Lambert can improve things.We need to be more resolute in defending and demonstrate how to see a game out...that will take a bit of investment particularly in midfield and maybe centre back. we need players who do "what it says on the tin"

[briny_ear]

TRO, I think it will take more than a "bit of investment" to get us out of our current problems!

I can't fathom really why you always try so hard to downplay the only spell of successful football we have had this century and to minimise the deep crisis that Lerner has led us into through his financial mismanagement.

[Raymond]

I'd like some indication he's not just happy being a mediocre nothing club.

I'd like consistent spending at a sensible level in line with a long term plan.

I was never happy being a nothing club under Doug so I'm certainly not going to be happy being a nothing club under Lerner. Not sure why others are now.

These are things he is capable of doing and he certainly has a chance to change the way he's run the club so far.

He's been nothing short of abysmal so far but with lambert he has a chance to redeem himself.

Oh. You mean like he has been doing and shows signs of continuing to do ever since the Lambert appointment?

And if he has a chance now to do the "right things", and I would argue ha show signs of taking the approach you have outlined, then why don't you lay off it for a month or so until we see what January brings?

[Big_John_10]

Pretty much as expected . You moan about insults yet constantly label everything or everyone as pathetic. The hypocrisy is astounding and as I said it shows a staggering lack of self awareness.

You say your dislike for Lerner has no bearing on your general emotions but it must do at some level . You cannot post the same tedious , negative posts without it affecting you in the slightest . Wallowing in misery will perpetuate the misery whether you say so or not.

As for clinging to positivity I would have to express perplexion as I am not overly positive about villa at all . If anything I am numb to it and have already mentioned that my joy from football is gained from the "not knowing" how things will pan out . I am neutral yet live in hope .

Then you go and completely validate everything I have said about you by saying the following

I assume you insulted and complained about anyone who wasn't happy with Doug, true? Did you complain when all those thousands held up £ signs and asked them why they couldn't just be positive?

You start off by admitting it's an assumption but then proceed to argue a point that isn't there, as if it were somehow a fact . You are the queen of the strawman argument .

I have already stated that I don't complain about Villa's shortcomings . It's not that I am being positive about it , it's that I realise I can not alter the situation .

I didn't care how well or badly Ellis ran the club and I do not care how brilliant or abysmal Lerner is . I love the club and will support them regardless of how bad things get . For me being a Villa fan is just a day out watching a game I love at a ground I love . (I prefer away games mind you as the fans are more vocal and I enjoy being in the minority tribe in a hostile environment . )

I am sorry I don't fall into a pigeonhole such as Pro Lerner or anti whatever but I just don't . At the end of the day it is 22 miillionaires kicking a ball around for entertainment purposes and I just can't get as emotionally involved or attatched as I did when I was a kid. Life is too short to spend all day crying on the internet about what is essentially a business that abuses my arbitrary loyalty to milk money out of me and can potentially offer me nothing in return for it . This is why I choose to stay happy about being a Villa fan regardless of how shit they may be or how badly they are being run . I love the drama of live sport and the buzz of going to Villa Park and thinking that today might be our day . If it turns out that today will never be our day then so be it . I can't control that and there are thousands of other sports teams who's day it will never be .

If you want to get pissed off over things you cannot change then that is your perogative, but you really shouldn't try and drag everyone else down with you and you really shouldn't mis-represent everyones opinions to try and justify your own .

You say I can't make a decent point but I think I have been as clear and articulate as I can . I have only responded to what you have written and have tried not to make any assumptions or twist your words . Something you could really start trying to do yourself .

If you want to

Fair enough. If you didn't have an issue with Doug then I can see why you're not bothered about what Lerner.

Did you ever moan or complain about Mcleish last year?

Did you moan or complain about anyone who did have a problem with doug though?

[Big_John_10]

Oh. You mean like he has been doing and shows signs of continuing to do ever since the Lambert appointment?

And if he has a chance now to do the "right things", and I would argue ha show signs of taking the approach you have outlined, then why don't you lay off it for a month or so until we see what January brings?

While the summer shows evidence of my second point I'm still yet to see evidence about my first point.

Given the start of our squad I didn't think much of how we conducted business and how much was made available in both fees and wages.

[markavfc40]

I'm just one of those that think that we wasn't doing quite as well during 6-6-6 as we thought we was. 3wins in 11 ( 2007-2008) 2 wins in 13 ( 2008-2009) 3 wins in 12 ( 2009-2010) would suggest to me that we wasn't quite as in control as we thought we was. yes the final position was ok but we were never in any kind of control....in short it was brittle.... not much has changed in that respect, we could easily go on a good run.

we spent over 130 million on players who found ball control troublesome and luckily recovered 54 million on 3 players that were just about the only equitable ones that we could sell.

We have gradually got worse.... but that does not make those 3 years faultless far from it.

Has anyone claimed that those three seasons were faultless? I am not sure any team has ever been able to claim that.

I can’t be asked to look at the stats but how many draws/defeats in those runs of wins were there? If I could be bothered to trawl back over the results of those seasons I am sure I could find some runs of say 5 wins in 7, 6 wins in 8, 8 wins in 12. Facts are for those three seasons we improved on our point’s total season on season, achieved our highest ever 38 game Prem season total and for the first time in over 50 years finished top six three seasons on the spin. Reached our first final in a decade, played in Europe, reagulary gave the big boys a game and never lost a local derby. As an aside to that we also averaged over 40k for the first time in over 50 years and had two other seasons that would rank amongst our highest in that period. Not major achievements but given our recent history not to be sniffed at either and should be considered relative success. Well certainly compared to what went before and what has come since.

As for us luckily recouping 54 mill on 3 players why was that lucky? I am also wondering where you got your figures from. Young was sold for 17 mill, Downing for 20 mill and Milner 20 mill + Ireland who was rated at around 7 mill at the time. Thats 64 mill. Even luckier

[Harry]

The observation I was trying to make is that far too many players were allowed to leave for very little or no return on the initial investment.

13 Players some of whom cost us big money all walked or will walk out of our club with out any transfer fees due. Thats just terrible business.

I cannot think of any other club in the top tier of football who would allow that to happen.

£61 Million Gone.

Had the club clawed back as little as 30% of that it would have paid Darren Bents Transfer Fee............

I think that statement needs some qualification. There were players we should have never bought in the first place for the fees we paid (Curtis Davies) so we were never going to get decent money back. There were players who would not sign a new contract and I think we made a conscious decision to retain (Mellberg).....and then there were players we should have moved on when we could get some money for them (NRC). I still think whilst RL is not without blame you cannot absolve the manager particularly in the early years