The Randy Lerner thread

[VillaRob]

Reminds me of that episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm - where Larry's divorce lawyer loses his mate the Dodgers.

I think Randy was working on the basis of "Build it and they will come". Effectively he built it but we stayed at home. Hence why we aren't getting shiny new North Stand and cutting cloth to our budget. I agree that this has been all too quick and our balloon has been well and truly burst.

[markavfc40]

I think Randy was working on the basis of "Build it and they will come". Effectively he built it but we stayed at home. Hence why we aren't getting shiny new North Stand and cutting cloth to our budget. I agree that this has been all too quick and our balloon has been well and truly burst.

What did he build exactly? Under O’Neill we spent what 70 mill net in 4 years. This took us from a club that had just finished 16^th and going backwards for a few years to one that finished 6^th three times on the spin with the 8^th, 6^th and 6^th highest wage bill. Did he really expect more from his investment both in terms of fees and wages than that? Did having the 6^th highest wage bill entitle us to finish in the top 4 and win things? Given our starting base when he arrived did a 70 mill net spend in 4 years entitle us to overtake the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd who had years of investment and then more recently Man City?

He pretty much did half a rebuilding job and then downed tools.

As for us not coming I don’t agree with that. In 2007/8 we averaged over 40k for the first time in over 50 years. In 2008/9 we averaged 39.5k. Even in 2009/10 with two long cup runs to fork out for we still averaged over 38.5k. This was whilst finishing 6^th remember not competing for the title.

Attendances have not surprisingly dropped off rapidly over the last couple of seasons and if our downward spiral continues they will continue to do so. As in life in football you reap what you sow and Lerner most certainly is.

[AndyHowell]

Some good points there Rob. There was this global crash remember? The Lerner's probably don't have the cash any more and have been looking for investors (i.e. sale) for a few years now.

My biggest criticism of them rests with their footballing decisions, appointments, transfer budgets and so on. There's not much sign of them understanding what is needed.

Personally, I'd have been happier if we had gone down last year. At least we could have started rebuilding more effectively. Lambert doesn't have much to work with and there's not much in the Lerner's history that suggests they will give him the time.

Prediction. We will sack Lambert and avoid relegation by a point or two. We'll make another odd appointment who will be once again told to work with the kids. And we will struggle again next season :-(

[AvfcRigo82]

Some good points there Rob. There was this global crash remember? The Lerner's probably don't have the cash any more and have been looking for investors (i.e. sale) for a few years now.

My biggest criticism of them rests with their footballing decisions, appointments, transfer budgets and so on. There's not much sign of them understanding what is needed.

Personally, I'd have been happier if we had gone down last year. At least we could have started rebuilding more effectively. Lambert doesn't have much to work with and there's not much in the Lerner's history that suggests they will give him the time.

Prediction. We will sack Lambert and avoid relegation by a point or two. We'll make another odd appointment who will be once again told to work with the kids. And we will struggle again next season :-(

So why not stop the rot now instead of allowing this cycle of rot to continue?

I don't see what sacking Lambert is going to do or achieve this club in the long run.

Also have your seen Learners statement to Lambert and what the game plan is?

I feel with this philosophy your running with WOULD make us go down and never come back up for a long long time.

I disagree with you.

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[cbr600rr]

What did he build exactly? Under O’Neill we spent what 70 mill net in 4 years. This took us from a club that had just finished 16^th and going backwards for a few years to one that finished 6^th three times on the spin with the 8^th, 6^th and 6^th highest wage bill. Did he really expect more from his investment both in terms of fees and wages than that? Did having the 6^th highest wage bill entitle us to finish in the top 4 and win things? Given our starting base when he arrived did a 70 mill net spend in 4 years entitle us to overtake the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd who had years of investment and then more recently Man City?

He pretty much did half a rebuilding job and then downed tools.

As for us not coming I don’t agree with that. In 2007/8 we averaged over 40k for the first time in over 50 years. In 2008/9 we averaged 39.5k. Even in 2009/10 with two long cup runs to fork out for we still averaged over 38.5k. This was whilst finishing 6^th remember not competing for the title.

Attendances have not surprisingly dropped off rapidly over the last couple of seasons and if our downward spiral continues they will continue to do so. As in life in football you reap what you sow and Lerner most certainly is.

70m ..when RL bought the club he paid £x but he should have paid 20m more but doug knew the team needed investment..hence doug sold the club 20m cheaper but the 20m had to be spent on the team..so RL has spent £50m..take chelsea they have made a profit now..yes it cost RA a shed load but its paying now.

[Stevo985]

Stop looking at lump sums.

The wages were the problem.

[Big_John_10]

The wages showed a serious lack of long term thinking and how he dealt with it has left us in proper mess right now.

Terrible decisions followed by terrible decisions. Hardly the stuff of a great sports team owner.

[Stevo985]

Regardless of who's to blame, without CL football, the cutbacks had to happen.

[Big_John_10]

Even with champions league football we were never going to be able to continue spending.

We never would have been able to generate the kind of money needed to consistently hold off 2 clubs from the group of spurs, city, arsenal, Chelsea and united.

[AvfcRigo82]

Even with champions league football we were never going to be able to continue spending.

We never would have been able to generate the kind of money needed to consistently hold off 2 clubs from the group of spurs, city, arsenal, Chelsea and united.

We will never know!

.

[Big_John_10]

You think finishing in the top 4 once would allow us to generate enough money to repeat it?

Spurs generate much more money than us and they couldn't manage it.

Look how much money it took city to first do it.

[AvfcRigo82]

You think finishing in the top 4 once would allow us to generate enough money to repeat it?

Spurs generate much more money than us and they couldn't manage it.

Look how much money it took city to first do it.

So you want a sugar daddy chairman to try and 'BUY' us quick success now?

[Big_John_10]

I want an owner who has a long term plan that involves spending a decent amount of money wisely and on a consistent basis.

I want an owner who runs us in a sensible way so that when we lose our bed players we are able to spend the transfer fees and wages needed to replace them.

You seem happy with one that has no financial control, hires poor managers and sees the club in a worse state now than it was when he bought it from someone who was deemed a bad owner.

[AvfcRigo82]

I want an owner who has a long term plan that involves spending a decent amount of money wisely and on a consistent basis.

I want an owner who runs us in a sensible way so that when we lose our bed players we are able to spend the transfer fees and wages needed to replace them.

You seem happy with one that has no financial control, hires poor managers and sees the club in a worse state now than it was when he bought it from someone who was deemed a bad owner.

Lerner only provides the funds to the manager - he don't pick the players he wants.. your getting mixed up with Abramovich mate.

The day any chairman starts interferring in team affairs is a sad day.

If you ask me he has never picked a manager to 'hire'.

MON was in place for him and I believe the last 2 he was ill advised on by his puppet that he obviously but foolishly trusts to much.

.

[maqroll]

Prediction. We will sack Lambert and avoid relegation by a point or two.

I agree we'll avoid relegation, but Lambert will not be sacked. In fact, even if we were relegated, I believe Lerner would stick with Lambert, and I'd want to keep him around too. Can you name another manager you'd want for a promotion campaign?

[maqroll]

I think the key is to scout and sign quality players on the cheap, but put them on big enough wages that they'd be reluctant to leave. That way we'd finally get some stability and continuity.

[Big_John_10]

Lerner only provides the funds to the manager - he don't pick the players he wants.. your getting mixed up with Abramovich mate.

The day any chairman starts interferring in team affairs is a sad day.

If you ask me he has never picked a manager to 'hire'.

MON was in place for him and I believe the last 2 he was ill advised on by his puppet that he obviously but foolishly trusts to much.

.

Shifting the blame nicely there.

If he took advice from Faulkner on who should be manager then he's a bigger idiot than I thought.

Never asked for him to choose players, the way he's run the club, the managers he's hired, the wages we offer and the fees his willing to pay all play a major part in restricting how we have tried to replace the top players that have left the club.

[PieFacE]

If you ask me he has never picked a manager to 'hire'.

MON was in place for him and I believe the last 2 he was ill advised on by his puppet that he obviously but foolishly trusts to much.

Evidence of this? Or are you just completely guessing?

[AvfcRigo82]

Evidence of this? Or are you just completely guessing?

There is clear evidence of this - look at our last 2 appointments before Lambert!

Who the **** in there right mind would pick a dithering french man with health issues?

Who the **** in there right mind would pick a manager who just got your most hated rivals relegated to be our new manager?

That does not strike me as the actions of a chairman who 'Loves this club'!!

Paul Faulkner CEO is that correct? If this guy is not here for negociations, contracts and everything else a CEO is employed to do then what the **** does he actually do in the role and what is he doing at Villa Park?

And no Big John I am not "shifting" any blame anywhere. Just stating fact.

.

[Mantis]

To be fair I don't think Houllier was a bad choice at the time, and him being French is irrelevant. McLeish was indeed a strange though and the only rationale I can think of for that was that Randy needed somebody to drive down the wage bill who could then be got rid of.