OutByEaster? Posted June 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2020 6 hours ago, Michelsen said: I was talking about how I’m worried Trump won’t admit defeat and his lack of regard for the democratic process, which you dismissed as «fantasy stuff». I think he'll have a hissy fit, throw his toys out of the pram, make a boatload of bizarre accusations and spend a year on the circuit telling everyone how great he is before he disappears into dotage - but I think the second he's not in the White House, power will move on to ensuring that the next stooge is playing by the right rules for them and he'll be completely irrelevant. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 A lot depends on the next few months (obviously) and therefore the margin on election day. If he loses by circa 9 or 10, with Republican candidates in tough races trashing his performance to try to save themselves, then he'll be memory-holed as fast as they possibly can. If he got it back to being a really tight race, I could definitely see him running a lucrative grift claiming that he was robbed somehow, and lots of Reps going along with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I think he'll have a hissy fit, throw his toys out of the pram, make a boatload of bizarre accusations and spend a year on the circuit telling everyone how great he is before he disappears into dotage - but I think the second he's not in the White House, power will move on to ensuring that the next stooge is playing by the right rules for them and he'll be completely irrelevant. And what happens after the election if he gets enough of his gun-toting, rabid base to believe the election was rigged? I really don’t trust America’s ability to solve anything peacefully right now. Edited June 26, 2020 by Michelsen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) It's really interesting how often he says a word wrong then corrects it with an "and" ie "unwaving and unwavering support". Shows a mentality of a man who can't accept anything he does as an error. Edited June 26, 2020 by Sam-AVFC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 21 hours ago, Michelsen said: The chicks? Clucking good name, that. The Chicks is a bit sexist isnt it? Should just call themselves 'The' just to make sure nobody is offended. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 I 100% agree with the consensus here that Biden would undoubtedly be better than Trump, but what really bothers me about this situation is that I fear a Biden term or 2 will set the stage for a much more competent and dangerous fascist than the oafish Trump. The same desperation and rage that voted him into office will likely resurface after 4/8 years of a "return to normalcy", and all it takes is a less hideous version of Steve Bannon to pop up on the Republican ticket for shit to really hit the fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Yes a competent Trump is a big danger. There’s also a possibility of a genuine progressive candidate coming through once the old guard move on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 12 hours ago, il_serpente said: Give it a rest with the "but Biden did bad stuff" line. This election isn't between Biden and absolute righteousness. It's between Biden and Trump. Are you positing that Trump was or would have been on the right side of any one of those issues? The crime bill was 26 years ago. Not to downplay it or suggest that I ever supported it, but I think a lot of people who did have learned from its consequences. Doesn't help those who have suffered from it, but do you really believe that if it were to come up today that Biden would be pushing it? I certainly don't. Do you think Trump would? I certainly do. Would Biden be good for "ordinary people"? Some, yes and some, no. Would he be better than Trump? It's not even a debate. There's this systematic racism thing. You may have heard of it as it has been in the news a little as of late. I suggest you go read https://newjimcrow.com, before making such astonishing blith statements. Biden should be persona non grata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 27, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 27, 2020 17 hours ago, il_serpente said: Give it a rest with the "but Biden did bad stuff" line. This election isn't between Biden and absolute righteousness. It's between Biden and Trump. Are you positing that Trump was or would have been on the right side of any one of those issues? The crime bill was 26 years ago. Not to downplay it or suggest that I ever supported it, but I think a lot of people who did have learned from its consequences. Doesn't help those who have suffered from it, but do you really believe that if it were to come up today that Biden would be pushing it? I certainly don't. Do you think Trump would? I certainly do. Would Biden be good for "ordinary people"? Some, yes and some, no. Would he be better than Trump? It's not even a debate. You guys are in a not too dissimilar position to where we were with our last election. Slightly different reasons but Corbyn was off his rocker and Labour were completely unelectable. Johnson is a pratt of the highest order. It really was a case of what colour shit do you want on your sandwich. Fortunately we have an (alleged) three (or more) party system so I changed the habit of a lifetime and voted Lib Dem. It was a completely wasted vote but I literally couldn't vote for either of the others and at least they were against Brexit so I had an ideal I believed in. Sometimes you don't have a possibility to vote in what you want so you just have to go for the least worst option. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 9 hours ago, Keyblade said: I 100% agree with the consensus here that Biden would undoubtedly be better than Trump, but what really bothers me about this situation is that I fear a Biden term or 2 will set the stage for a much more competent and dangerous fascist than the oafish Trump. The same desperation and rage that voted him into office will likely resurface after 4/8 years of a "return to normalcy", and all it takes is a less hideous version of Steve Bannon to pop up on the Republican ticket for shit to really hit the fan. Why would a Biden presidency, particularly, make this competent fascist more likely than any other presidency? What about Biden specifically, as opposed to the Republican party's ongoing trajectory towards white minority politics? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 7 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Why would a Biden presidency, particularly, make this competent fascist more likely than any other presidency? What about Biden specifically, as opposed to the Republican party's ongoing trajectory towards white minority politics? I doubt Biden will do a second term if he wins which makes his running mate choice all the more important and there is a good chance that they will be a non-white woman, which will get a fair few in America foaming at the mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 You can get Fox news fans foaming at the mouth over almost anything. It's safer just to assume they are rabid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 21 minutes ago, Straggler said: You can get Fox news fans foaming at the mouth over almost anything. It's safer just to assume they are rabid. Problem is they still get to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 27, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 27, 2020 1 hour ago, sharkyvilla said: I doubt Biden will do a second term if he wins which makes his running mate choice all the more important and there is a good chance that they will be a non-white woman, which will get a fair few in America foaming at the mouth. Obama got in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 10 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Obama got in. I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 21 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: A lot depends on the next few months (obviously) and therefore the margin on election day. If he loses by circa 9 or 10, with Republican candidates in tough races trashing his performance to try to save themselves, then he'll be memory-holed as fast as they possibly can. If he got it back to being a really tight race, I could definitely see him running a lucrative grift claiming that he was robbed somehow, and lots of Reps going along with it. I honestly don't know what's more dangerous. If he gets trashed and republicans start to throw him under the bus, and the threats of some states still wanting to prosecute him gain traction, he's still got nearly 3 months of being president, who knows what kind of crazy shit he'll get up to if he feels backed into a corner It's one of the interesting differences between the UK and US elections. I can't imagine a PM remaining in situ for months after losing the GE. The result is barely announced before the moving vans turn up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 4 hours ago, Davkaus said: I honestly don't know what's more dangerous. If he gets trashed and republicans start to throw him under the bus, and the threats of some states still wanting to prosecute him gain traction, he's still got nearly 3 months of being president, who knows what kind of crazy shit he'll get up to if he feels backed into a corner It's one of the interesting differences between the UK and US elections. I can't imagine a PM remaining in situ for months after losing the GE. The result is barely announced before the moving vans turn up here. How may months was TM a dead-woman walking. The UK system has no reason to be gloating about anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 1 minute ago, villakram said: How may months was TM a dead-woman walking. The UK system has no reason to be gloating about anything. Can't see anything in my post that could be taken as "gloating", tbh. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 27, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 27, 2020 28 minutes ago, villakram said: The UK system has no reason to be gloating about anything It doesn't. It's a terrible electoral system we've got. The USA's is also awful. There's an argument to actually have an amicable handover period. Can't see Trump doing that mind, should he lose, but with grown up politicians it ought to a good thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, blandy said: It doesn't. It's a terrible electoral system we've got. The USA's is also awful. There's an argument to actually have an amicable handover period. Can't see Trump doing that mind, should he lose, but with grown up politicians it ought to a good thing. There have been suggestions from a few thinktanks in the run up to previous elections about implementing a formal transition period of a week or two. It often goes hand in hand with the idea of having a civil service Department of the Opposition, responsible for ensuring a smooth transition, and giving incoming ministers support recognising a lot of them in a new government basically have no idea how to actually run a department. We've got along kind of ok until now so perhaps it's not necessary, but it's an interesting idea. Edited June 27, 2020 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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