StefanAVFC Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Not that it matters but paedophilia isn't the correct term for someone into teenagers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted November 22, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 22, 2021 I don't care if he was Pope John Paul the butcher, that's irrelevant to the running people over and killing them thing, it's the same irrelevance as the Rittenhouse trial - the verdict in the Rittenhouse trial is the correct one despite Rittenhouse clearly being a delusional semi-psychotic madman desperate to play soldier and plop himself into the middle of a war of ideals with a big phallic semi - in the case of the people that he shot dead, that's all irrelevant, it was self defence. Equally, if Mother Theresa or Ghengis Khan plow into a marching band in a pick up truck, it don't make a whole lot of difference to the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted November 22, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 22, 2021 The reporting on the BBC suggests that the driver was "fleeing another scene" rather than having set out to attack the parade - is that the BBC covering their backs at this stage? The larger problem in America at the moment is that every crime seems to come with the immediate need to paint the accused into one of the US's opposing culture groups, with the crime seemingly taking second place to the moral media "victory" of the left or right. It's hard to look at the state of things there at the moment and see a happy ending. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 22, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 22, 2021 2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: The reporting on the BBC suggests that the driver was "fleeing another scene" rather than having set out to attack the parade - is that the BBC covering their backs at this stage? The larger problem in America at the moment is that every crime seems to come with the immediate need to paint the accused into one of the US's opposing culture groups, with the crime seemingly taking second place to the moral media "victory" of the left or right. It's hard to look at the state of things there at the moment and see a happy ending. NBC just stated the perp was involved in a domestic stabbing incident prior to the parade incident 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancvillan Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 6 hours ago, tonyh29 said: automatic rifle was me rather than the BBC , it sorta went rat-a-tat ,rat-a-tat ,rat-a-tat and left people dead on the ground , not being US high school student I'm not all that familiar with guns so i just assumed it was an automatic rather than a semi- automatic rifle . The facts matter - both in terms of legality and how the case is viewed by the public. An automatic weapon would have been illegal for Rittenhouse to carry. While the difference between semi-automatic and automatic firearms may seem insignificant to you, they aren't in terms of the law. On public perception - I'm guessing you're UK-based, whereas the culture and understanding relating firearms is widely different in the US. Someone carrying an automatic firearm would be viewed as wildly different to someone carrying a semi-automatic by a decent number of Americans (not all, but a significant enough portion). Do you need to agree with either the law or difference in perception? Of course not. I personally think the US lax laws on the subjects of safe storage and transportation, and the lack of restrictions around acquisition (age, character references, etc) are incredibly problematic. The problem with brushing away "alternative facts" like they don't matter is that it polarizes the conversation even further, and meaningful discussion around public policy changes involves two sides using two different narratives and agreeing on nothing. And they hate each other even more. Look at Brexit, climate change - pick your poison. So there's a social cost (division), and then often a legislative response that is designed to pander to rhetoric - which wastes time and public money rather than addressing a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Vancvillan said: On public perception - I'm guessing you're UK-based, whereas the culture and understanding relating firearms is widely different in the US. Someone carrying an automatic firearm would be viewed as wildly different to someone carrying a semi-automatic by a decent number of Americans (not all, but a significant enough portion). Utterly insane, isn’t it? When it’s just typed out like that. Wow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancvillan Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, bobzy said: Utterly insane, isn’t it? When it’s just typed out like that. Wow. Yeah it's hard for me to get my head around. Personally I have a hard time with any justification for having loaded firearm within city limits, but unfortunately that's not the way the wind blows in a lot of US states. Thankfully I don't live in them, but I'd still welcome good faith unemotional conversation with someone who does and agrees with open or concealed carry. The bit in bold is pretty hard to find, and that's the scariest part for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 59 minutes ago, bickster said: NBC just stated the perp was involved in a domestic stabbing incident prior to the parade incident He sounds like a real stand up citizen. Hopefully he rots in prison. He's already had enough chances in life by the sound of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted November 22, 2021 Administrator Share Posted November 22, 2021 5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Equally, if Mother Theresa or Ghengis Khan plow into a marching band in a pick up truck, it don't make a whole lot of difference to the outcome. Bad examples there. They were both evil. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Salad Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Xela said: He sounds like a real stand up citizen. Hopefully he rots in prison. He's already had enough chances in life by the sound of it. Totally agree. He will just do something else if he gets out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 11 hours ago, limpid said: Bad examples there. They were both evil. Hang on, I'm not having this. It's all well and good trying to retcon our understanding of historical figures to fit a "modern narrative" of good and evil, but what the hell did Genghis Khan ever do wrong? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 37 minutes ago, Straggler said: Hang on, I'm not having this. It's all well and good trying to retcon our understanding of historical figures to fit a "modern narrative" of good and evil, but what the hell did Genghis Khan ever do wrong? Had a name that makes smug people say “Well actually it’s pronounced…” Van Gogh was a word removed too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted November 23, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2021 The way America thinks about firearms is utterly insane to people from the UK, or I'd guess most countries. @Vancvillan the differentiation between automatic and semi-automatic guns and the way that differentiation is treated by the law and indeed by people who live under that law is so alien to us that I can understand how to you our reactions seem to lack objectivity, personally I don't think they do. For us, it translates to the idea that there's a social feeling in the US that the bloke wandering around a shopping centre waving a six inch knife is a perfectly acceptable and sensible citizen, but the bloke waving the eight inch knife is a dangerous psycho that needs to be apprehended immediately. It makes absolutely no sense at all. in the UK, the moment Rittenhouse takes possession of a gun; whether that's a revolver, an automatic pistol, a rifle, a semi-automatic rifle, an automatic rifle, a machine gun or a personal anti-tank rocket launcher, he's a criminal liable for a minimum sentence of three to five years. I like that. It's good sensible law making. It means that it's illegal to possess a machine that's purpose is killing people, it's not complicated logic. Personal gun ownership, where a person gets to keep a machine designed for killing things in their house or car is an horrendous idea in a modern society. Open carry is madness. You get a sterner punishment in some US states for crossing the road in the wrong place than you do for carrying a machine designed to kill things in open sight - objectively it's almost impossible to justify that. America encourages a debate around different types of gun ownership, different regulation on gun ownership and different rules on storage and transportation - it's a debate designed to obfuscate the idea that there is no justification for a citizen of a free democratic country to have a firearm in their individual possession - it's a machine designed to kill things, that's what it does, no one should have that. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 On 22/11/2021 at 12:20, HanoiVillan said: The issue here is that what is decided in a court is not the only way to perceive a situation. Nobody is disagreeing that Rittenhouse has been found in court to have acted in self-defence. I was answering your post in which you suggest the 2nd and 3rd victims were “under the impression” he was an active shooter, which you wrote in response to AWOL “fixing” your post by adding in self-defence. So it sounded like you thought they were mistaken. If you’re claiming you don’t think he did act in self-defence in the first incident, then that changes everything. At that stage they’re not just under the impression that he’s an active shooter, he IS an active shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 It’s mesmerising the lengths people will go to in order to confirm their own opinion, even as far as defending a convicted nonce. They’re usually the same people who defended Remi Garde to the bitter end. I’ll leave you to decide whether that’s a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 32 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: It’s mesmerising the lengths people will go to in order to confirm their own opinion, even as far as defending a convicted nonce. They’re usually the same people who defended Remi Garde to the bitter end. I’ll leave you to decide whether that’s a coincidence. Wtf? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 44 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: It’s mesmerising the lengths people will go to in order to confirm their own opinion, even as far as defending a convicted nonce. They’re usually the same people who defended Remi Garde to the bitter end. I’ll leave you to decide whether that’s a coincidence. Que? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just trying to get up to speed, has Remi Garde shot a nonce? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted November 23, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Just trying to get up to speed, has Remi Garde shot a nonce? Certainly puts his win percentage up from 13% if he has 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 They got there, in the end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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