U.S. Politics

[chrisp65]

Yeah, and when the deep state communist trans jihadi’s come a knockin’ you can always throw poetry books at them.

Clueless Morans.

 

[MakemineVanilla]

On 11/12/2021 at 16:50, chrisp65 said:

Yeah, and when the deep state communist trans jihadi’s come a knockin’ you can always throw poetry books at them.

Clueless Morans.

 

That sounds like an Irish boy-band I am very glad to have never heard!

[bickster]

35 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

That sounds like an Irish boy-band I am very glad to have never heard!

It comes from this which became a meme if you didn't know

[Vancvillan]

On 07/12/2021 at 04:59, PussEKatt said:

What I would like to know is,what are they supposed to use these type of guns for ?

I mean they are no good for hunting,target shooting or shooting birds,so apart from killing other people what are you supposed to do with them ?! 

Semi autos in 223 (what the AR15 is) are considered decent ranch guns for varmint control (Cayotes mostly).

First Nations people in Canada sometimes hunt with the SKS (similar calibre semi auto) though bolt guns are far more popular since they don't jam and are typically more accurate. In fact  hunting deer with 223 is illegal in a lot of US states. 

There are some "three gun" tournaments when people compete for speed and accuracy with pistols, shotguns and rifles, and the AR15 is popular because of the modular design.

Basically hyper-niche use cases where an alternative could be easily argued for and none of which this family falls in to. I'm all for trying to see someone else's side but I have a hard time with justifying ownership of centrefire semi-automatic firearms - if someone claims a farm subsidy (usually requires a bunch of conditions) there could be a case where those people are excempt from a ban. I'd love to hear someone on here argue for them though?

[OutByEaster?]

How does hunting work in the US in terms of land rights?

Do you need permits and permissions? Are there zones where hunting is permitted? Or is it a point and shoot free-for-all?

 

[ender4]

19 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

How does hunting work in the US in terms of land rights?

Do you need permits and permissions? Are there zones where hunting is permitted? Or is it a point and shoot free-for-all?

 

I believe you can hunt humans in any public space if you are angry or upset about anything. 

[PussEKatt]

18 hours ago, bickster said:

It comes from this which became a meme if you didn't know

I think having a brain is great.I think everyone should have one.

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

How does hunting work in the US in terms of land rights?

Do you need permits and permissions? Are there zones where hunting is permitted? Or is it a point and shoot free-for-all?

 

Somebody who knows what they're talking about should definitely answer you properly, but AIUI it depends enormously on where you are, eg national park, private land, public land etc, and also state and municipality as well.

One thing I do know pretty much for sure is that disputes about who can access what lands for herding, hunting, fishing, walking etc are some of the big political disputes in the big empty states in the middle of the country. (I only know this because the Anthony Bourdain episode in Montana is all about this, lol).

[OutByEaster?]

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

Somebody who knows what they're talking about should definitely answer you properly, but AIUI it depends enormously on where you are, eg national park, private land, public land etc, and also state and municipality as well.

One thing I do know pretty much for sure is that disputes about who can access what lands for herding, hunting, fishing, walking etc are some of the big political disputes in the big empty states in the middle of the country. (I only know this because the Anthony Bourdain episode in Montana is all about this, lol).

It's something that's interesting to me in that I'd imagine it's so different to the UK. Here it's almost impossible to find 'wilderness' or land that isn't part of someone's farm or estate or in an urban area - the idea of being more than a couple of miles from a streetlight or a road is alien to most folks in England and I know that size changes things, but I've never heard anyone talk about hunting in the US as restricted to any kind of estate or specified parkland. Different worlds.

 

[bickster]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

How does hunting work in the US in terms of land rights?

Do you need permits and permissions? Are there zones where hunting is permitted? Or is it a point and shoot free-for-all?

 

Animals or humans?

[Chindie]

Nothing like hunting long pig. The most dangerous game. Exactly why I need to fire 600 rounds a minute.

[PussEKatt]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

How does hunting work in the US in terms of land rights?

Do you need permits and permissions? Are there zones where hunting is permitted? Or is it a point and shoot free-for-all?

 

I think you are allowed to hunt animals in the outback and humans in the city,I could be wrong.

[bickster]

1 hour ago, PussEKatt said:

I think you are allowed to hunt animals in the outback and humans in the city,I could be wrong.

Skin pigment is important though

[il_serpente]

12 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

How does hunting work in the US in terms of land rights?

Buddy Hackett explains it quite well:

 

[MNVillan]

15 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

How does hunting work in the US in terms of land rights?

Do you need permits and permissions? Are there zones where hunting is permitted? Or is it a point and shoot free-for-all?

 

Really depends what you are trying to hunt and where. I’m obviously most familiar with Minnesota where I live. Pretty typical that big game (deer, Bear, moose are the most common up here in Minnesota) requires a permit tag where one permit = one animal to kill. And you’re usually only allowed to buy one permit per year, maximum, and they expire at the end of the season (deer hunting in Minnesota is annually November and lasts 2 or 3 weeks). So if you buy a permit and don’t kill a deer to “use” it, you can’t save it for next year’s season, you still have to buy a new one. The price and number of permits they sell every year is monitored by our Department of Natural Resources and depends on species. For instance, if the bear population is lower than normal they will sell fewer permits. Where demand exceeds supply, a raffle is held to see who gets a permit. Price also fluctuates by species. We have plenty of deer, so it’s around $20 to get a deer permit. Moose are much rarer, so it’s $350 to buy one moose permit. Moose permits are very tough to get - very few are given out, so it always goes to a lottery and your chances are not good. I also believe the rule in Minnesota is that you only get one moose permit in your lifetime, so you get one crack at moose hunting here (although I’m not 100% sure if that’s the case now).

Smaller game you still need a permit but it’s for a limit. For instance if you want to go duck hunting you can buy a permit that lasts for 7 days, 30 days, 45 days etc (price varies by length of time). Then there is a limit that is set by the government based on species population. For instance right now the limit is 6 duck per day, per permit.

You generally can’t hunt on government protected land (state parks, national parks, etc). You also generally can’t hunt within city limits. I have plenty of deer in my yard but I can’t just sit on my back porch with a rifle and hunt. Once you get outside city limits it’s entirely dependent on who owns the land. Public land hunting is allowed or restricted at the discretion of the government. Private land, hunting is allowed at the discretion of the owner. My in-laws own a farm in Southern Minnesota and don’t hunt themselves, but every once in a while they will have someone knock on their door asking if they can hunt for either birds or deer on their land. I know people who own a bundle of acres in rural areas that they just use as their “hunting land.”

Sorry for the novel. Hope that helps. I live in an area where hunting is very popular.

Edited December 14, 2021 by MNVillan

[TheAuthority]

15 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

It's something that's interesting to me in that I'd imagine it's so different to the UK. Here it's almost impossible to find 'wilderness' or land that isn't part of someone's farm or estate or in an urban area - the idea of being more than a couple of miles from a streetlight or a road is alien to most folks in England and I know that size changes things, but I've never heard anyone talk about hunting in the US as restricted to any kind of estate or specified parkland. Different worlds.

 

When I first came to the American West I fell in love with it for that reason. To go hiking in Utah or Arizona you can backpack for weeks and not see people. Just listening to the silence (sound of nature) is a unique experience. We just don't have anything on that scale in England.

I have no wish to sneak around it shooting living creatures though.

[magnkarl]

It turns out that in the midst of the eegit parade breaking into Capitol and killing people, Fox news' anchors texted Mark meadows to make it stop. In comparison to what they said live on TV after the event it seems they fully understood that this was pro trump people and that Donny had the power to stop them. A lot of people are in deep trouble as they dig through Meadows' texts and emails.

 

[OutByEaster?]

5 hours ago, MNVillan said:

Really depends what you are trying to hunt and where. I’m obviously most familiar with Minnesota where I live. Pretty typical that big game (deer, Bear, moose are the most common up here in Minnesota) requires a permit tag where one permit = one animal to kill. And you’re usually only allowed to buy one permit per year, maximum, and they expire at the end of the season (deer hunting in Minnesota is annually November and lasts 2 or 3 weeks). So if you buy a permit and don’t kill a deer to “use” it, you can’t save it for next year’s season, you still have to buy a new one. The price and number of permits they sell every year is monitored by our Department of Natural Resources and depends on species. For instance, if the bear population is lower than normal they will sell fewer permits. Where demand exceeds supply, a raffle is held to see who gets a permit. Price also fluctuates by species. We have plenty of deer, so it’s around $20 to get a deer permit. Moose are much rarer, so it’s $350 to buy one moose permit. Moose permits are very tough to get - very few are given out, so it always goes to a lottery and your chances are not good. I also believe the rule in Minnesota is that you only get one moose permit in your lifetime, so you get one crack at moose hunting here (although I’m not 100% sure if that’s the case now).

Smaller game you still need a permit but it’s for a limit. For instance if you want to go duck hunting you can buy a permit that lasts for 7 days, 30 days, 45 days etc (price varies by length of time). Then there is a limit that is set by the government based on species population. For instance right now the limit is 6 duck per day, per permit.

You generally can’t hunt on government protected land (state parks, national parks, etc). You also generally can’t hunt within city limits. I have plenty of deer in my yard but I can’t just sit on my back porch with a rifle and hunt. Once you get outside city limits it’s entirely dependent on who owns the land. Public land hunting is allowed or restricted at the discretion of the government. Private land, hunting is allowed at the discretion of the owner. My in-laws own a farm in Southern Minnesota and don’t hunt themselves, but every once in a while they will have someone knock on their door asking if they can hunt for either birds or deer on their land. I know people who own a bundle of acres in rural areas that they just use as their “hunting land.”

Sorry for the novel. Hope that helps. I live in an area where hunting is very popular.

Thank you that's a really interesting answer. 

I'm firstly amazed that you can hunt bears. I'm not sure why I'm surprised you can hunt bears, but I am. 

The land ownership is interesting - I guess here that pretty much all of the public land is in your government protected land section, and it's almost strange in the UK to imagine the idea of land that isn't some form of park or doesn't belong to someone. 

I think scale makes a difference to the mentality of a country (I guess having bears also makes a difference to the mentality of a country) and I think it's difficult for me as someone from the UK to have a real understanding of why hunting is thought of differently in the US when I live in a country where the biggest most dangerous animal is a badger and where the largest open space is Dartmoor which is about 20 miles North to South and the same East to West. I can't say as I'm a fan of hunting, especially as a sport, but I'm not sure how I'd feel if I'd grown up in a country that still has wildernesses. 

Anyways, thank you.

 

 

[MNVillan]

5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Thank you that's a really interesting answer. 

I'm firstly amazed that you can hunt bears. I'm not sure why I'm surprised you can hunt bears, but I am. 

The land ownership is interesting - I guess here that pretty much all of the public land is in your government protected land section, and it's almost strange in the UK to imagine the idea of land that isn't some form of park or doesn't belong to someone. 

I think scale makes a difference to the mentality of a country (I guess having bears also makes a difference to the mentality of a country) and I think it's difficult for me as someone from the UK to have a real understanding of why hunting is thought of differently in the US when I live in a country where the biggest most dangerous animal is a badger and where the largest open space is Dartmoor which is about 20 miles North to South and the same East to West. I can't say as I'm a fan of hunting, especially as a sport, but I'm not sure how I'd feel if I'd grown up in a country that still has wildernesses. 

Anyways, thank you.

 

 

It’s for sport, no doubt, but there are also laws about using the animal that you shoot. If you kill a deer, you can’t just cut its head off for the trophy to put on your wall and leave the rest. The meat has to be processed and consumed. For a lot of people, the meat lasts them the entire year until it’s hunting season again next year. Of course there are plenty of people who don’t have use for 100+ pounds of meat, in which case it is donated to food shelters to help feed the hungry.

So while it is sport, it creates jobs (butchers who clean the meat, taxidermists who mount the trophy heads, etc). It also provides food, either for the person that shot it or the hungry. Lastly, at least in Minnesota where we have hundreds of miles of open forest, it helps maintain healthy populations of different animals to keep the ecosystem balanced. It’s heavily regulated. 
 

Edit: and there are heavy penalties for illegally hunting and fishing. If you don’t obey the regulations you can get hit with massive fines and even jail time. For instance, wolves are protected here (can’t be hunted at all) because their population is at an endangered level. Getting caught killing a wolf leads to 6 months in jail and a $25,000 fine. And since the bald Eagle is our national bird, if you get caught killing one of them you’re looking at a year in jail and a $100,000 fine.

Edited December 14, 2021 by MNVillan

[OutByEaster?]

As an idea of how different Minnesota is to here, Minnesota covers 225 thousand square kilometres which makes it about 1.6 times the size of England and it has a population of 5.64 million against just under 56m in England. I would imagine if there were fifteen times as many people in Minnesota as there are now it'd be culturally different, and I guess if the population of England was reduced to being less than 3 million then we'd grow up thinking very differently. 

I think there's probably a lot in that in terms of the psychological make up of populations and how they then think about nationality and influence the politics they live under - hunting is alien to most people in the UK because well it's unnecessary in the UK and there isn't really anywhere to do it or anything worth hunting - I reckon there are probably lots of areas of Americas "weird" politics where the same sort of thing applies.