Ashley Westwood

[kurtsimonw]

A sideways/backwards pass isn't always necessarily a "negative" pass. If he's in the middle of the pitch and gets closed down and plays a sideways/backwards pass to a full back with space in front of him to run in to, that's a forward thinking pass. He's identified that someone has the opportunity to make progress and played the ball - even though the ball has actually gone backwards. The "negative" pass in that situation would be taking the easy way out and playing it to a centre half.

 

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

Has made more tackles per game (average) than anyone else in our squad.

Has made more interceptions per game (average) than everyone other than Elphick and Hutton.

Has the highest passing accuracy of anyone in our squad whilst making more passes than anyone other than Baker.

Has more shots per game (average) than everyone other than Gestede and Ayew.

 

"Does nothing".

Exactly.

[Keyblade]

14 minutes ago, sne said:

But how many of those passes where under hit so the player had to stop and wait, slowing the tempo down?

Seriously thou, gotta love that this might turn into the new Bannan thread, need more heat maps.

That does not sound like a Westwood pass at all. He usually plays it into a player's path.

[Keener window-cleaner]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

More detailed, you be the judge. Against Huddersfield:

Against Rotherham:

So one key pass in two games. The problem for me is that he is too slow, too weak and too short to be a defensive midfielder, and clearly is not creative enough to be an attacking midfielder. In the same way as has been mentioned in other threads that "hard working" should be a minimum requirement, basic passing should also be a minimum requirement for a professional footballer. He is good enough for an average Championship team, but not good enough for Aston Villa in my opinion...

Thanks for the graphics by the way, it's really interesting! I'd like to see those for all players.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Keener window-cleaner

[Keyblade]

The graphic is just in response to the sideways passing canard. You can see them for any player over at Squawka

[Czechlad]

What is most concerning for me from that graphic is how wide we play. Pretty much every pass is out wide. Why not at least try some defense splitting passes? 

[Keyblade]

I mean, we play 4-4-2, so it's to be expected.

[Czechlad]

It also shows me that our forwards are a little too static or our midfield is not looking for those passes. Just because we play 4-4-2 doesn't mean we can't play a through ball once in a while. 

[rodders0223]

Where is the heat map?

[bobzy]

50 minutes ago, Czechlad said:

What is most concerning for me from that graphic is how wide we play. Pretty much every pass is out wide. Why not at least try some defense splitting passes? 

We have Gestede as a striker and Ayew and Grealish as wide players - the play going out wide makes complete sense.

[Troglodyte]

20 hours ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

So one key pass in two games. The problem for me is that he is too slow, too weak and too short to be a defensive midfielder, and clearly is not creative enough to be an attacking midfielder. In the same way as has been mentioned in other threads that "hard working" should be a minimum requirement, basic passing should also be a minimum requirement for a professional footballer. He is good enough for an average Championship team, but not good enough for Aston Villa in my opinion...

Thanks for the graphics by the way, it's really interesting! I'd like to see those for all players.

If we're to play some sort of possession football, which will make sense in a lot of games in this division, you need a player in midfield who can keep things ticking over nicely.  At this level, Westwood is certainly capable of being that player.  I have no doubt that he shifts it sideways a lot, but that's often to help in switching the play and finding men in space.  It isn't as simple as being a 'defensive midfielder' or an 'attacking midfielder' at all.  I don't really like using terminology to define players' roles when in reality they are different depending on how each manager wants them to operate in their side, but Westwood is more of a deep-lying central midfielder than a defensive one.  That said, I think he's done his defensive duties very well this season.

Statistics about 'key passes' also aren't necessarily a good indicator of a player's performance in midfield.  I decided to quickly Google Xavi's passing stats, who I think is the greatest player I've seen to play a role something similar to Westwood's.  Now I'm not for one second claiming that there is even a remote similarity in ability, but Xavi was also a central midfielder who was there to keep things moving and set up moves for attacking players to do their work.  In 2013, Xavi played the 'perfect passing game' against PSG.  He completed 92 of 92 passes (or 96 of 96, depending on the source).  How many of them were 'key passes'? None. Yet was Xavi still a hugely important figure in that team, the cog that kept them ticking? The one that selected where the play should be going and finding players in space from which attacks could be built?  Yes.  And he's certainly not quick, strong or tall - attributes you also seem to think that players in this position should have.

With the right players around him, Westwood is absolutely good enough for where we are at the moment.  I also reckon that if he does have a solid defensive midfielder alongside him, such as Jedinak, he'll be able to get forward more and will grow in confidence when it comes to his attacking play.  He and Tshibola also look capable of building a good partnership, where one sits when the other goes forward.

[Keener window-cleaner]

I agree that it's not as simple as being a defensive midfielder or attacking midfielder and that Westwood is more of a deep lying central midfielder. I think it worked when he played in a three man midfield like the FA-cup semi final when he had Delph and Cleverly on each side and Grealish in front of him. In a two man midfield it gets more problematic as I would demand more that the quite vague Gregg Evans-favourite expression of keeping the team ticking. Shouldn't every player have the basic ability to pass the ball around according to the managers instructions, i.e. keeping the team ticking? At least I demand more of an Aston Villa midfielder. I think he is prone to giving free kicks and penalties away and I think that's partly because he is not good enough defensively, too slow and too weak. I want a deep lying midfielder to be able to pass the ball around and to be good defensively.

I wouldn't mind keeping Westwood as long as we are in the Championship so I agree with you that good enough for where we are at the moment. He would at least be an ok squad player and could do a job coming on and keeping possession in the latter parts of games when we are leading. But I still don't think he is good enough for Aston Villa and sadly for me he emptomises our decline and lack of ambition of the last years, so I may well treat him a bit unfairly because of that.

Xavi a couple of years ago would be welcome :-) (though I'm actually not sure how well he would work if his Barcelona/Spain teammates dont come along).  

Edited August 20, 2016 by Keener window-cleaner

[Keener window-cleaner]

On 2016-08-18 at 17:42, Czechlad said:

It also shows me that our forwards are a little too static or our midfield is not looking for those passes. Just because we play 4-4-2 doesn't mean we can't play a through ball once in a while. 

With Jedinak on the pitch I expect something like this, giving the hairdryer treatment to anyone not running after his defence splitting passes...

Edited August 20, 2016 by Keener window-cleaner

[commander]

He doesn't work in our system. Get Rid. We don't play possession football. He doesn't contribute enough going forward. is Cowardly with and without the ball and whilst he did well for the most part on Tuesday we conceded late on because the midfield was non existent and he was a big part of that. He'll probably have good games this year (like Rotherham) but when it comes down to it - when the pressure is on - he will bottle it like he has in pretty much in every single performance he has given in his (hugely depressing) 4+ years here. These 2 points pissed away could ultimately prove costly.  

We need to get rid of weak people whether it be mentally or physically or like westwood both.

The reality is we've had 3 games and only won 1 of them - 2 of which were at home against teams we're expected to beat. I believe if we had a more solid defensive midfielder and a more creative attacking player you would hope on the balance of probabilities that we can improve on 1 win in 3. it's not all down to westwood of course but he isn't the charachter we need if we are up for a fight - we don't need weak people that will hide. 

[AJ]

There are players in the squad that are straight out crap, but I am not convinced Westwood is one of them.  Due to the lack of leadership on the pitch, not having a decent manager, and an impotent playing style over the past few seasons, that would stunt the development of a player coming through the ranks. Generally, he hasn't played well, but Westwood has had his moments. With the club in overhaul with some decent mature heads around him, maybe that player within can be coaxed out of him.

Failing that, teach him to run like a crab, and we might get the ball going forward.

[Zatman]

havent seen the last 2 games so I am looking forward to watching the new and improved Westwood tomorrow vs Derby

[rjw63]

9 hours ago, Zatman said:

havent seen the last 2 games so I am looking forward to watching the new and improved Westwood tomorrow vs Derby

[dont_do_it_doug.]

On 18/08/2016 at 16:42, Czechlad said:

It also shows me that our forwards are a little too static or our midfield is not looking for those passes. Just because we play 4-4-2 doesn't mean we can't play a through ball once in a while. 

You know that's for one player?

[Dr_Pangloss]

He's not effective enough, falls to dictate the tempo and isn't enough of a physical presence. Definitely needs to be replaced. If we could have Jedinak next to a more dynamic box to box sort of player then our central midfield will be sorted. 

[Condimentalist]

Excellent first half 

[StefanAVFC]

4 minutes ago, PatrickCousens said:

Excellent first half 

Yep. Doing everything he's usually criticised for